mjr
Active Member
You can call the Helt Estonian if you like, but it was officially Panamanian. The hijacked Turkish ships could have triggered it, but Turkey does not seem to have requested NATO support yet.
War with Russia
- Thread starter Milzy
- Start date
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Johnno260
Regular
Was that the Sky series? as yes it was a tad grim.
Beebo
Veteran
I can’t see Putin over playing his hand. The mighty Russian army have been made to look a bit silly by a highly motivated Ukrainian army.
If they were in a conventional war with NATO the sitting duck convoy would have been wiped out by now. So they won’t push any further than Ukraine.
As much as I don’t like it, I believe there will be an uneasy agreement to cede eastern regions to Russia on the understanding that if this happens again then all gloves are off.
If they were in a conventional war with NATO the sitting duck convoy would have been wiped out by now. So they won’t push any further than Ukraine.
As much as I don’t like it, I believe there will be an uneasy agreement to cede eastern regions to Russia on the understanding that if this happens again then all gloves are off.
fozy tornip
At the controls of my private jet.
Unless of course that was a sitting decoy duck convoy.
I'm not sure you've thought this through
I'm not sure you've thought this through
Beebo
Veteran
?
I’m quite sure I haven’t thought this through.
But not even Russia would put a 30 mile column of tanks into Ukraine just to look incompetent and get it blown up on purpose.
matticus
Guru
Although all match results are still possible, the above has looked like the most likely result almost from Day 1.
- early on there were a surprisingly high number of predictions for total defeat of UKR in a week, followed by likely invasions of whichever euro states took Vlad's fancy;
- more recently, as UKR showed a bit of backbone, the predictions have turned into gloom about Putin not taking defeat well, and using nastier and more destructive tactics until he "won" a smoking UKR-shaped pile of ash. Whilst NATO cowered in the corner, convinced that a nuclear strike would follow any serious attempt to stop him.
Sadly it's rather boring to predict anything in the middle.
fozy tornip
At the controls of my private jet.
Inflatables.
matticus
Guru
It's curious how we define "not fighting the Russians." We've given the Ukrainians key weaponry:
https://www.gov.uk/government/speec...-the-house-of-commons-on-ukraine-9-march-2022
"For our part, the United Kingdom continues to play a leading role in supporting Ukraine. On 17 January,... <snip>...
and for the first time it also included weapons systems. The initial supply was to be 2,000 new light anti-tank weapons (NLAWs), small arms and ammunition.
In response to further acts of aggression by Russia, we have now increased that supply. I can update the House that, as of today, we have delivered 3,615 NLAWs and continue to deliver more."
It's clearly all a game: Putin threatens to hit us, while we basically stick pins in him while teacher isn't looking.
"... at 6 March, Russian casualties were assessed to include 285 tanks, 985 armoured fighting vehicles ..."
https://www.gov.uk/government/speec...-the-house-of-commons-on-ukraine-9-march-2022
"For our part, the United Kingdom continues to play a leading role in supporting Ukraine. On 17 January,... <snip>...
and for the first time it also included weapons systems. The initial supply was to be 2,000 new light anti-tank weapons (NLAWs), small arms and ammunition.
In response to further acts of aggression by Russia, we have now increased that supply. I can update the House that, as of today, we have delivered 3,615 NLAWs and continue to deliver more."
It's clearly all a game: Putin threatens to hit us, while we basically stick pins in him while teacher isn't looking.
"... at 6 March, Russian casualties were assessed to include 285 tanks, 985 armoured fighting vehicles ..."
dutchguylivingintheuk
Über Member
Sure but we already have two Nuclear powerplants in the Ukraine which have loose contact, one is confirmed to be out of power. So the luxury of choosing the moment of attack seems to be slipping away we would a much bigger problem if either of those powerplant causes a other nuclear disaster. Both us, France, the uk have nuclear weapons, putting them on ''high alert'' or however it is called just like Russia surely is an other determent. (alltough i off course hope they are not used)
I don't think tanks are the biggest asset in these kind of Wars, look on how easyly they are taken out with those TB2 drones and hand held rocket launchers for example, the Us has lots of the more powerfull reaper drone, if they fly a farm(a other thing US has recently made lots of progress on) of those things above Kyiv, Charkiv or Mariupol for a they they can wipe out all Russia's dirty weapons, tanks and such.
Just as a full on wart against Russia might not be needed, just get them out off Ukraine first in a way that's is undisputly clear that they are defeated and, from now on respond very strongly to any future ''exercises'' in such a way that they would think twice about turning an ''exercise'' into a war.
Yeah like i said above i don't think traditional tank or even foot solder roll-out is going to work here. You see that too with the Russians, time and time again they are defeated not only because there badly motivated, but also because the Ukrainians know every alley, ditch and tree in the area and the others do not.
Yes to be honest i don't know half or them but wasn't Ukraine supposed to be protected from Russia invasion by the Warsaw pact that saw them turning in their Nuclear weapons in exchange of said protection? and if so what are those treaty's really worth then?
We still have a strongish Army in europe but it has been trimmed down in much countries, i remember also how Trump(and i'm no fan of Trump, but he was correct on this point) was ridiculled when he said Nato countries need to keep up the 2% gbp military spending. The same who laughed at him now are in the forefront of hastily announcing more military spending. (to late you need to invest to be ready for a future war not whilst it is playing out.)
But i war with a country like Russia will never be easy not without a price. the question is more what is the price of inaction? The last time it was Georgia, not it's Ukraine, What if Poland of Finland is next?
I don't think thousands of troops are gonna help much, because if you look at how it is going, Ukraine isn't loosing much of his troops during fighting, it's the thermobaric batteries, bomb attacks that kill most including pregnant women children etc. so a not fly zone would help a lot, i understand the reservations and of course they are very valid, but if Russia gets away with this, the changes are they they come back stronger, would we want that?
Yes with ships is always a bit confusing under which flag they sail because you have so much leasing constructions and such. Maybe Turkey made a deal with Russia they where at the foot of war sometime after Russia downed a Turkish F-16 on the Turkish/syria border but ever since then them seem to be somekind of friennemies
dutchguylivingintheuk
Über Member
Russia has much more manpower, but yes that's how it works this morning that was a video that shows it very clearly, they shot the first tanks and than whatever they have ammo for, resulting in the other tanks turning around.
winjim
Welcome yourself into the new modern crisis
Also this.
View: https://twitter.com/juliaskripkaser/status/1501605721426825225?t=waNCf9wGioH5WW0Sy9RnkQ&s=19
The Ukrainians are doing such a good job at keeping up morale with their tractors and their silly songs and their tax relief on Russian tanks that it can all seem like a jolly good laugh at times. And in the twitter age a lot of the footage can look like a video game or whatever. In fact some of it actually is video game footage. But it's real and awful and unless we have actual expertise, the Ukrainians do not need our hot takes on how to defend their cities and take out Russian convoys.
Fab Foodie
Guru
Not quite. Dutchie has a point which may be unfashionable around here but that doesn't make it any less valid.
Also - before getting accused as a warmonger, let's not conflate what needs to be done with what we are willing to do.
The west and I suspect most here underestimate how ingrained Russian Military might is into the psyche of the Russian people.
You can't travel far in Russia without glorious memorials, military propaganda, military personnel, military parades, patriotic songs. Russian TV is almost an endless procession of Russian War Movies and the News is an endless procession of military exploits and patriotic stories. We laugh at Putin's strongman image, but it's an integral part of what the majority of Russians want; a strong leader to protect them and the means to protect the motherland from all-comers. Of course the west is usually the bogey-man in all this. One UK Destroyer entering the Black Sea is projected as an invasion.
Russians are tough hardy proud people. Many live in conditions that we would find hard to endure. These are the people of Stalingrad and the 900 days....
So, taking that on-board, there is not a cat in hell's chance that Putin will withdraw troops. He will lie to his people about their performance, he will silence dissenters and he will control the narrative, but he will not under any circumstances retreat. He will however (and his playbook is well documented on this), ramp up the atrocities and find excuses for domestic consumption to do this. But he will wage war. Anything less than victory by ANY means is untenable. Putin and his regime do not care about dead babies or sanctions. People starving on his streets, will be spun to give more power to his elbow to defeat the fascists.
Hoping that Ukraine unaided can drive them from their lands is a great hope, they will face endless atrocities with chemical and possibly bio-weapons... I don't think they can do this alone.
There will not be any kind of peoples revolution that will depose him in any suitable timescale.
He may face a coup within the Kremlin, but only if he shows weakness, and those that depose him are probably just as insane.
BUT, the west cannot afford to let Putin win.
And it's a moot point, but we're already at war, WW3 is underway, any other description is dancing on a pin.. We might not have fired a bullet, but, training, arming and supporting Ukraine with weapons, economic warfare, and no doubt cyber-warfare against Russia is still war. Hand-wringing about sending Polish Migs to Ukraine is no different than supplying anti-tank missiles.
Putin's Russia has to be defeated militarily and the regime changed...that's not going to be done by Ukraine alone.
theclaud
Reading around the chip
Starmer's gone full George W Bush. The massive twat.
View: https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1501969617522155532?t=p88mM0wANthWN-W6p8fMyQ&s=19
View: https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1501969617522155532?t=p88mM0wANthWN-W6p8fMyQ&s=19
D
Deleted member 121
Guest
To add some perspective on why we are not ready for a war with Russia, here is the excellent Mark Felton. Much of this can be applied to all of Europe...
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNRUP-T01Ig
Oh and mind the uncomfortable close up of Boris's face...
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNRUP-T01Ig
Oh and mind the uncomfortable close up of Boris's face...
winjim
Welcome yourself into the new modern crisis
Best...
...trained?
...equipped?
...motivated?
...dressed?
...looking?
...before?
...served chilled?
...bitter?
...left unsaid?
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