War with Russia

[RecordAceFromNew]

With what does Ukraine or anyone else negotiate with?
We've been peacefully negotiating with Russia for decades and been taken for fools.
Putin only understands and wants one thing, and that's power. If you want to negotiate with him you have to give him more of what he wants. The more power he has, the more freedom to get away with what he wants because the democratic world doesn't have the balls to stand up to him.

I feel quite sad when I read comments like the above.

To try to understand what is happening around the world, and make no mistake we are on the cusp of WW3, I would recommend everybody takes a bit of time to read and think about this:

Does Anyone Still Understand the ‘Security Dilemma’?

 

[Deleted member 49]

I’d rather remove Israel’s offensive capabilities.

How do you think that's going to work 🙄USA preaching democracy seems to be selective based on their own interests ?
Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iraq, Syria , Pakistan....what's the betting anytime soon we're going to be taught about the freedom and democracy of Taiwan ?
Meanwhile Biden just sold $3.05 billion worth of American-made Patriot missiles and related equipment to Saudi Arabia so they can continue committing genocide in Yemen.

 

[newfhouse]

How do you think that's going to work 🙄

It isn't, but that wasn't my point.

 

[Deleted member 49]

It isn't, but that wasn't my point.

What is your point then....save me the Corbyn and 1936 bollox though.

 

[newfhouse]

What is your point then....save me the Corbyn and 1936 bollox though.

Sorry, that's too restrictive. I can't explain without using one scenario to illustrate the other.

 

[Deleted member 49]

Sorry, that's too restrictive. I can't explain without using one scenario to illustrate the other.

To be fair you didn't set the bar high....I wasn't really expecting much from you.

 

[qigong chimp]

It's all a bit tetchy here at the moment.
Is the thought of imminent environmental, economic and nuclear Armageddon robbing us of our usual jouissance?

 

[newfhouse]

To be fair you didn't set the bar high....I wasn't really expecting much from you.

Do you think that armed conflict is ever justified? How about providing military aid to one side in a war if doing so may deter an expansion of the conflict?

It’s perfectly honourable to take the Quaker view and say no to both, but maybe sometimes it may cause more harm than it saves. I genuinely don’t know whether Corbyn is an absolute pacifist or if there are some aggressors he would choose to fight. Do you know?

I used the Spanish Civil War as an example because Socialists back then had to grapple with the same dilemma.

 

[Ian H]

Out of interest, where do we think Corbyn would have stood in 1936 when Hitler and Mussolini were bombing civilians in Spain? For or against the International Brigades?

I suspect he might have joined the International Brigade, as Eric Blair did, but who knows.

 

[Cirrus]

With what does Ukraine or anyone else negotiate with?
We've been peacefully negotiating with Russia for decades and been taken for fools.
Putin only understands and wants one thing, and that's power. If you want to negotiate with him you have to give him more of what he wants. The more power he has, the more freedom to get away with what he wants because the democratic world doesn't have the balls to stand up to him.

Would Russia have invaded if Ukraine had not given up their nukes I wonder?

 

[Deleted member 49]

Do you think that armed conflict is ever justified? How about providing military aid to one side in a war if doing so may deter an expansion of the conflict?

Me personally ? Yes.

It’s perfectly honourable to take the Quaker view and say no to both, but maybe sometimes it may cause more harm than it saves. I genuinely don’t know whether Corbyn is an absolute pacifist or if there are some aggressors he would choose to fight. Do you know?

Corbyn an absolute pacifist lol....everyone knows he was in the IRA 🙄

used the Spanish Civil War as an example because Socialists back then had to grapple with the same dilemma.

Do you think that's what being a socialist is....really.Its odd how Corbyn still has such a platform for people to p1ss there pants over what he says !
I mean think about it your asking me what I think he would have done in the 1930s.
Corbyn said....
"This war is disastrous for the people of Ukraine, for the people of Russia, and for the safety and security of the whole world, and therefore there has to be much more effort put into peace.”
But don't let that get in the way of a story ?

 

[newfhouse]

Corbyn said....
"This war is disastrous for the people of Ukraine, for the people of Russia, and for the safety and security of the whole world, and therefore there has to be much more effort put into peace.”

He’s right in his summary of the effects of the war but what do you think he means by “more effort”? Should Ukraine be denied weapons and other military assistance while those unspecified and likely futile efforts are made?

 

[Unkraut]

"This war is disastrous for the people of Ukraine, for the people of Russia, and for the safety and security of the whole world, and therefore there has to be much more effort put into peace.”

I don't think anyone would deny this is a noble sentiment, but Putin isn't interested in peace until he gets what he wants. I'm not sure the Ukraine is quite so squeaky clean and democratic either - something western reporting has gone quiet on.

A threat of NATO intervention might lead to a negotiated peace, but the risk would be a European if not world war. If the West isn't prepared to take that risk, I don't see what making more effort for peace would look like in practice.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

I feel quite sad when I read comments like the above.

To try to understand what is happening around the world, and make no mistake we are on the cusp of WW3, I would recommend everybody takes a bit of time to read and think about this:

Does Anyone Still Understand the ‘Security Dilemma’?

This is the same point your trying to make like a 1000 times in this topic, The point your missing is that Putin didn't start a war in 2014, not in 2008 but in 1999 nd then as part of these war changed how to learn history in Russia, making the Sovjet unions role more heroic. Let's also not forget Russia had it's own version of the Nato too, it's just became less popular when it started attacking it's own members(Including Ukraine) But it did work in the conflict last year with Azerbaijan against Armenia. Or to keep al those friendly dictators in place, who coincidently all are big fans of Putin. Most regional tensions starter way before Nato, Poland and Russia are add odds since the second world war, somehow they didn't like the Red Army holding their advance so Hitler could kill of Poles for example.

It isn't, but that wasn't my point.

I known your point is not enough Jews murdered right? I mean that exactly where you are advocating for. The west could have played and role in de-escalation, by making sure ''development funds'' for Palestina where actually spend on development, but they didn't so it was spend on rockets guns etc. etc. ''if you want to live in peace but your enemy insist on war, take away their abilty to wager it''

 

[FishFright]

I’m not trying to catch anyone out. It was a genuine question, asked because I don’t know the answer. What do you or others think?

What do you think ?