War with Russia

[Pblakeney]

OK, well if that's the case, I have learned Never put a Pragmatist in charge of Peace Negotiations ..
Look, they hate each-other, this is never gonna stop - let's all go down the pub and leave them to their mutual destruction.

;-)

That is a misrepresentation of my view. I'd target the transgressor in order to get them to back down and negotiate peace from there.
Applies to more than Russia/Ukraine. That's pragmatism, you are describing pessimistic apathy.

 

[matticus]

That is a misrepresentation of my view. I'd target the transgressor in order to get them to back down and negotiate peace from there.
Applies to more than Russia/Ukraine. That's pragmatism, you are describing pessimistic apathy.

That's fine! But you did initially state something rather less constructive:

The problem that will not be resolved is that whatever is an acceptable end for one side is unacceptable to the other

I don't know how to read that as anything other than pessimism!

(after all, doesn't every successful negotiation end with something acceptable to both sides? N'est-ce pas??)

 

[Pblakeney]

That's fine! But you did initially state something rather less constructive:


I don't know how to read that as anything other than pessimism!

(after all, doesn't every successful negotiation end with something acceptable to both sides? N'est-ce pas??)

Fair. It's not unrealistic to think that nothing will change until Europe starts putting actions before words though. There are too many vested interests being protected and talk is cheap. Other side of the coin, Putin simply doesn't want peace. Sounds pessimistic but it is simply realistic.

I will be optimistic if you can give details of a peace deal that Putin will agree to, and guarantees Ukraines sovereign independence and peace in the long term. Should be simple. 😉

 

[All uphill]

I might be naive here, but it seems that a Nobel was there for the taking, if he would park his greed and just look for a peaceful solution with no profit margin for DJT.
A far easier conflict to sort out than anything in the Middle East; there are basically just two - nominally democratic - nations to deal with, and both want an end to the thing.

Agreed.

Seems that deferred gratification or moderation of his behaviour is beyond him.

 

[Pinno718]

Some headlines:

Russians and businesses withdrew a trillion rubles from banks in five months​

https://archive.is/Eo5V3

There are 180m barrels of crude oil in ships with no buyers in tankers around the world. Oil is selling at just over $40 per barrel.

 

[briantrumpet]

Russians and businesses withdrew a trillion rubles from banks in five months

That's about £273.65, if my maths is correct.

 

[Pinno718]

Burn burn burn in a burning ring of fire...

The Kyiv Independent
'It burns for 3 days' — Ukrainian drone strike sparked huge fire at Russia's Temryuk Seaport, SBU source says
https://kyivindependent.com/sbu-dro...terminal-in-russias-temryuk-port-source-says/

 

[matticus]

Fair. It's not unrealistic to think that nothing will change until Europe starts putting actions before words though. There are too many vested interests being protected and talk is cheap. Other side of the coin, Putin simply doesn't want peace. Sounds pessimistic but it is simply realistic.

I will be optimistic if you can give details of a peace deal that Putin will agree to, and guarantees Ukraines sovereign independence and peace in the long term. Should be simple. 😉

Negotiations are about what each side will accept. Not what they "want". I bet your bottom dollar that in the Norn Irlund settlement, both parties agreed to accept at least one thing that they'd previously stated as unacceptable.

"Simple"? Well that's rather vague ... but I'd say that more complicated messes than this have been resolved in time. Of course, it does rather help if there are optimists involved, people actually looking for a solution ...

btw none of the above excludes continuing efforts to put Putin in a more difficult position; be that militarily, or by alliance-building. I'm certainly not suggesting appeasement!

 

[Pblakeney]

Negotiations are about what each side will accept. Not what they "want". I bet your bottom dollar that in the Norn Irlund settlement, both parties agreed to accept at least one thing that they'd previously stated as unacceptable.

"Simple"? Well that's rather vague ... but I'd say that more complicated messes than this have been resolved in time. Of course, it does rather help if there are optimists involved, people actually looking for a solution ...

btw none of the above excludes continuing efforts to put Putin in a more difficult position; be that militarily, or by alliance-building. I'm certainly not suggesting appeasement!

Right, so no detailed peace plan then. Plus any peace plan has to be more robust than the Minsk peace plan.
This is why the conflict will continue.

 

[Pinno718]

Right, so no detailed peace plan then. Plus any peace plan has to be more robust than the Minsk peace plan.
This is why the conflict will continue.

But as Matticus said: people actually looking for a solution...
Putin's only solution is victory and nothing else as anything less than that derails his expansionist plans and the war for him is just one big expensive failure.

 

[Pinno718]

Euromaidan:

https://euromaidanpress.com/2025/12...o-grab-1-45-of-ukraine-the-economist-reports/

Russia burns through 1% of its men to grab 1.45% of Ukraine, The Economist reports​

 

[Pinno718]

This is not a joke. Russians using... donkeys on the front line.
Nothing speaks more than 'superpower' than donkeys.
(As an animal lover, I also find this abhorrent. As Russian soldiers are having to buy their own socks or rely on volunteer contributions, it's possible that not only are these animals gong to be hit by drones, they will probably be eaten).
For the dissenting pessimists, I am not sure how long Russia can sustain this war when they have to resort to pre Genghis Khan logistics.


View: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=832653539466810

 

[Pblakeney]

But as Matticus said: people actually looking for a solution...
Putin's only solution is victory and nothing else as anything less than that derails his expansionist plans and the war for him is just one big expensive failure.

Your two sentences are at odds. One is optimistic, one is pessimistic. Put them together and you reach my pragmatic conclusion. 😉

 

[Pinno718]

Your two sentences are at odds. One is optimistic, one is pessimistic. Put them together and you reach my pragmatic conclusion. 😉

I disagree. I think that Putin is f*cked if he continues this war.
I would bet my bottom dollar that Zelensky would be totally sceptical of any ceasefire/peace deal being a genuine opportunity of long term cessation of conflict.

I liken Putin's stance similar to Hitler in 1944. His generals told him that they should withdraw form the northern peripheries along la Manche and any invasion would be hammered soon after landing. But Hitler wanting blitzkrieg and nothing less. This weakened him on the Eastern front and prior to D-day.

 

[matticus]

Put them together and you reach my pragmatic conclusion. 😉

You don't seem to have a pragmatic conclusion: you just keep saying It Can't Be Done - Here Is The Reason.