What is the point of prison?

[Archie_tect]

You mean I might have to actually speak, out loud... using words, at Green Party meetings?

 

[mudsticks]

You mean I might have to actually speak, out loud... using words, at Green Party meetings?

I know.

This is the tricky part right..?
When it comes to the crunch.

But you get used to it eventually.

Then realise they're only half listening anyhow

 

[slowmotion]

Politics aside, isn't doing what works the aim? By works I mean a balance of punishment, deterrence and prevention of reoffending. We don't seem to be as effective at two of those things as some other countries. Why not?

It's not easy to make comparisons between countries. For example, if one country decriminalises a crime, the prison population for that crime will be zero, as will repeat offending. Similarly, if a country sentences somebody to a hundred year stretch for something, the chances of the miscreant re-offending are a little slim.

 

[newfhouse]

It's not easy to make comparisons between countries. For example, if one country decriminalises a crime, the prison population for that crime will be zero, as will repeat offending. Similarly, if a country sentences somebody to a hundred year stretch for something, the chances of the miscreant re-offending are a little slim.

Are there any examples of such differences you could cite? Which democratic countries have decriminalised (or have lifetime sentences for) theft, fraud or violence?
Decriminalisation - or at least non-prosecution - of drug use is perhaps the only example I can think of.

 

[icowden]

It's not easy to make comparisons between countries. For example, if one country decriminalises a crime, the prison population for that crime will be zero, as will repeat offending. Similarly, if a country sentences somebody to a hundred year stretch for something, the chances of the miscreant re-offending are a little slim.

Whilst that is true for some statistics, others then come into play. For example, we know that the USA has the highest prison population per capita, extremely harsh and punitive sentencing and also a very high crime and murder rate. See Kyle Ritterhausen for an example of why their justice system doesn't work well.

Portugal can demonstrate improved outcomes from treating drug users in a number of ways. Decriminalising is not the same as legalising, and if anything they have upped the penalties for dealing drugs, whilst trying to help those who take drugs.

 

[BoldonLad]

Good parenting isn't guaranteed, and it isn't class-driven... I was responding to the BL's persistence to identify what is meant by societal ills to identify where kids who are about to or have fallen off the rails can be nurtured and have boundaries they are comfortable in... that's when communities and neighbourhood policing can help to protect the vulnerable by introducing the failsafes and boundaries that children deserve... and that needs funds to support the work being done, often by volunteers, especially in inner cities and/or abandoned to sink estates. Thank goodness for the shining lights which strive to help in the face of poverty and depravation.

Which you still have not specified

 

[BoldonLad]

.......

Yes parenting is hard, best done by a community, not just biological 'parents'.

........

Not always in evidence, in the plural, or, indeed at all,

 

[mudsticks]

Not always in evidence, in the plural, or, indeed at all,

I know, hence the community, and society, including well funded and well run public services are a vital element, of bringing up the next generation.

And tbh, imo even the 'best intentioned, and fairly competent biological parenting , is often best balanced out by other influences, for a more 'well rounded' start in life .

That's what my kids seem to feel about their childhood anyway.

It may of course be coincidental, but they seem pretty good at fitting in, and getting along in a very broad range of situations, and company.

 

[Archie_tect]

Which you still have not specified

~?? I thought I had... what else would you like me to say- give me something to get my teeth into otherwise it's going to get a bit repetitive! @Pale Rider, send three and fourpence, I'm struggling!

 

[slowmotion]

Are there any examples of such differences you could cite? Which democratic countries have decriminalised (or have lifetime sentences for) theft, fraud or violence?
Decriminalisation - or at least non-prosecution - of drug use is perhaps the only example I can think of.

Apart from drugs, I was thinking of the medieval sentencing lengths in the US which would limit the ability to reoffend.

 

[BoldonLad]

~?? I thought I had... what else would you like me to say- give me something to get my teeth into otherwise it's going to get a bit repetitive! @Pale Rider, send three and fourpence, I'm struggling!

If you have, I have missed it.

I was looking for your opinion on what we should be encouraging eg (not in any order)

-children raised in a two parent household yes/no

- what unacceptable? (Eg vandalism, theft, violence, antisocial behaviour, littering, fly-tipping, drug dealing, drug taking, drunkenness, etc)

 

[Archie_tect]

If you have, I have missed it.

I was looking for your opinion on what we should be encouraging eg (not in any order)

-children raised in a two parent household yes/no

- what unacceptable? (Eg vandalism, theft, violence, antisocial behaviour, littering, fly-tipping, drug dealing, drug taking, drunkenness, etc)

All of the above... that's a given, surely?

!. Children need support and guidance from a stable and loving nucleus- though extended families work best- that includes neighbours, friends, grandparents, aunts/uncles- it isn't easy for any single parent but any parent does their best so not criticising anyone for the hardship some have to cope with.... In that situation extended families/ society still provide vital moral and ethical support. The real heart-breaker is the child who is placed in care because either they lose one or both parent or they can't cope... that is a tragedy but fostering then comes into its own and I know some wonderful foster parents- my mum and dad fostered children until I was 8 when my mum retrained as a midwife.

As for what's acceptable? None on your list is, but if parents can't cope and the extended family isn't around and the neighbourhood doesn't have the strength of character and willingness too step in then that's when adequately funded [yes, funding again] social care comes into its own to support the families who aren't able to cope... mind you that is also down to joined-up thinking when a whole raft of government departments need to step up and get involved- education/ social services/ police... that takes adequately supported active commitment, not charity.

 

[qigong chimp]

What is the point of prison?

With the Arcuri scandal simmering, maybe taking Augustus Gloop out of circulation?

 

[BoldonLad]

All of the above... that's a given, surely?

!. Children need support and guidance from a stable and loving nucleus- though extended families work best- that includes neighbours, friends, grandparents, aunts/uncles- it isn't easy for any single parent but any parent does their best so not criticising anyone for the hardship some have to cope with.... In that situation extended families/ society still provide vital moral and ethical support. The real heart-breaker is the child who is placed in care because either they lose one or both parent or they can't cope... that is a tragedy but fostering then comes into its own and I know some wonderful foster parents- my mum and dad fostered children until I was 8 when my mum retrained as a midwife.

As for what's acceptable? None on your list is, but if parents can't cope and the extended family isn't around and the neighbourhood doesn't have the strength of character and willingness too step in then that's when adequately funded [yes, funding again] social care comes into its own to support the families who aren't able to cope... mind you that is also down to joined-up thinking when a whole raft of government departments need to step up and get involved- education/ social services/ police... that takes adequately supported active commitment, not charity.

So did I. Adopted two of them.

 

[Archie_tect]

That's wonderful! Two of my favourite cousins are adopted.