Who Cares...??

[swansonj]

@theclaud , who is your current avatar? I'm guessing this might be the most appropriate thread, at least in its original intent, to ask this question on?

 

[theclaud]

@theclaud , who is your current avatar? I'm guessing this might be the most appropriate thread, at least in its original intent, to ask this question on?

Ah! No - different series, as it's notionally a different forum. Mieke Bal, looking like an oil painting.

 

[theclaud]

She hasn't been murdered or owt!

 

[cookiemonster]

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/peop...cancel?module=lead_hero_story&pgtype=homepage

Who cares? Not men in South Korea it seems.

 

[mudsticks]

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/peop...cancel?module=lead_hero_story&pgtype=homepage

Who cares? Not men in South Korea it seems.

Hatred of feminists seems to be everywhere tbh

Why are so many resistant to true equality.?

Letting go of the power, and control comes hard I suppose.

 

[AuroraSaab]

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/peop...cancel?module=lead_hero_story&pgtype=homepage

Who cares? Not men in South Korea it seems.

South Korea seems a very depressing place to be a young woman. You only need to look at the K Pop music culture to see how pressured Korean women are to conform to a specific kind of femininity. The fact that a Korean female archer caused an uproar for having a short haircut tells you a lot.

Bit of a crap week on the feminism front really. The Taliban have started executing women's group leaders in Afghanistan, and families are selling their 5 year old daughters as child brides to old men to buy food.

 

[cookiemonster]

South Korea seems a very depressing place to be a young woman. You only need to look at the K Pop music culture to see how pressured Korean women are to conform to a specific kind of femininity. The fact that a Korean female archer caused an uproar for having a short haircut tells you a lot.

Bit of a crap week on the feminism front really. The Taliban have started executing women's group leaders in Afghanistan, and families are selling their 5 year old daughters as child brides to old men to buy food.

Not just women in the K-pop industry, males as well. Al Jazeera did a fantastic documentary about this a while back.

South Korea is still a patriarcal society. Being female is not fun but being gay or transexual is even worse.

 

[Unkraut]

You do realise this is a thread about the violence done to women and girls, and how we might tackle the underlying attitudes that lead to that.??

I assume this also applies to theclaud's comment on pubrunner's internet bust up.

It was going off at a bit of tangent Iagree, but not completely irrelevant to the subject.

I have long started to think that equality is part of the problem. I remember reading in the local government chronicle ages ago that what was usually regard as a looney left council was banning certain sexist expressions from use, including the weaker sex. The is from the new testament (likewise you husbands, live considerably with your wives, bestowing honour on the woman as the weaker sex). Now you can ban the expression, but you cannot ban the underlying truth of it, that men and women are not equal, certainly when it comes to physical strength, and possibly emotionally as well.

Is one of the problems that men are starting to treat women as men? No need to be chivalrous any more, that's old fashioned. Instead of bestowing honour what we should now do is fight it out with the women as your equal.

It is coincidence, but the very next post from Paley was this:

I reply to you in the same was as I do to a man, uppity or otherwise.

Men and women don't think the same way. Men initiate, women respond. Wouldn't it be better if you want at least to restrain the mistreatment of women by men that you taught men that they have a greater responsibility in this than women, that an inequality exists and should not be seen as something to take advantage of?

 

[theclaud]

I have long started to think that equality is part of the problem.

LOL no sh1t. Still, it's always useful when people say the quiet part out loud.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Men and women don't think the same way. Men initiate, women respond.

Interesting idea. Is it based on fact based evidence, or Biblical fiction?

 

[theclaud]

Interesting idea.

You spelled 'utter bollocks' wrong.

 

[mudsticks]

I assume this also applies to theclaud's comment on pubrunner's internet bust up.

It was going off at a bit of tangent Iagree, but not completely irrelevant to the subject.

I have long started to think that equality is part of the problem. I remember reading in the local government chronicle ages ago that what was usually regard as a looney left council was banning certain sexist expressions from use, including the weaker sex. The is from the new testament (likewise you husbands, live considerably with your wives, bestowing honour on the woman as the weaker sex). Now you can ban the expression, but you cannot ban the underlying truth of it, that men and women are not equal, certainly when it comes to physical strength, and possibly emotionally as well.

Is one of the problems that men are starting to treat women as men? No need to be chivalrous any more, that's old fashioned. Instead of bestowing honour what we should now do is fight it out with the women as your equal.

It is coincidence, but the very next post from Paley was this:

Men and women don't think the same way. Men initiate, women respond. Wouldn't it be better if you want at least to restrain the mistreatment of women by men that you taught men that they have a greater responsibility in this than women, that an inequality exists and should not be seen as something to take advantage of?

Thankyou for your call from the eighteenth century .

(To paraphrase the Claude)

Nope it was directly in response to your post.
Where you were trying to bring the gender debate into a conversation about stopping men being violent to women.

Yes indeed men do have total responsibility to to control both their own behaviours , and I'd like to think also the behaviours of their fellow men, so that all women..

Thats all women not just ones like me, get to play a full part in society, have full freedom to participate, free from fear of violence or abuse.

That would be excellent, now go sort it out..

I have no idea what all this 'chivalrous' stuff is about.


Just treat all humans as human, with respect, don't try to control them , or own them, or direct them, through fear, or power imbalances etc etc.

We all need to look after each other , particularly the 'weaker' and disadvantaged in society .
The fact that men are 'on average' physically stronger than the average woman, should play no part in it.

Emotionally stronger ??
You're having a laugh right.??

Now account for all the fragiled ego'ed guys ..

Fwiw I could probably trounce 3/4 of the guys here in a physical fight..
But that's just genetics and the fact that I have a very physical job

Doesn't give me the right to consider myself superior though does it..??

I'm just physically strong..
Big deal
A bullock is stronger than any of us .

Do we put them in in charge of all the things??

 

[AuroraSaab]

Is one of the problems that men are starting to treat women as men? No need to be chivalrous any more, that's old fashioned. Instead of bestowing honour what we should now do is fight it out with the women as your equal.

Don't think that's it. If that were the case there would be 50k rapes by men of other men a year, and there aren't.

Nobody's asking for chivalry. You don't have to be any nicer to women than to men. You just don't have to be meaner to them because you can.

(I acknowledge that male rape is hugely under reported and victims are inadequately supported).

 

[AuroraSaab]

Not just women in the K-pop industry, males as well. Al Jazeera did a fantastic documentary about this a while back.

South Korea is still a patriarcal society. Being female is not fun but being gay or transexual is even worse.

Very true. It's funny that we think of countries like Japan and Korea as very modern and westernised but the reality of life there for women, gay folk, and I suspect people of colour, is a long way behind Europe in some ways. Due to their policy of isolation for so long perhaps.

 

[mudsticks]

Don't think that's it. If that were the case there would be 50k rapes by men of other men a year, and there aren't.

Nobody's asking for chivalry. You don't have to be any nicer to women than to men. You just don't have to be meaner to them because you can.

(I acknowledge that male rape is hugely under reported and victims are inadequately supported).

Plus there weren't any 'good old days' where men were more 'chivalrous' to women..

Whatever that's supposed to mean..

Some women were maybe afforded respect or protection if deemed 'worthy' of it , by society or an individual family.

If they matched up to 'expectations' as laid out by society.

But very few were ever allowed autonomy as a right, or the same access to education and equality in employment, or political power.

That was considered 'overstepping the mark'

Many women were abused as 'routine'..
And it was ignored, or dismissed as 'just a domestic'

The knocking about on a Friday night, marital rape wasn't even a crime til the 1990's , withholding of all kinds of freedoms, and rights, and agency, both within or without the home.

"She was asking for it, going out looking like, or speaking like that"

Plus the expectation that the majority of household, and caring labour be done for 'free' because that's what women are 'for' right??

Unfortunately much of the above mindset, still holds true , in many places.

Not just in supposedly 'undeveloped' countries.

But right here on our own doorsteps.
Or rather behind closed doors.

We can try as parents to bring up our boys, so that they dont buy into any of the above.

However there's still a lot of contemporary 'reconstruction' of attitudes that needs to change , even in the UK .