American bombshell? Roe vs. Wade....

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Unkraut

Master of the Inane Comment
Location
Germany
Still waiting to hear what happened, and why, to the section on the upholding of women's reproductive rights..

There is an interesting dilemma in the statement. On the one hand:

We commit to uphold and protect gender equality, non-discrimination and freedom of religion or belief.

On the other:

Discriminatory personal status laws, laws that allow harmful practices, or restrict women’s and girls’ full and equal enjoyment of all human rights, including sexual and reproductive health and rights, bodily autonomy, and other laws that justify, condone, or reinforce violence, discrimination, or inequalities on the grounds of religion, belief or gender should be repealed

What do you do when a religious belief is in conflict with a law on equality? The NT ban on women being pastors would be a good example, and as far as I know also reflected in Judaism or Islam. Should you exempt churches from equality legislation on the grounds of freedom of religion, or include them thereby denying freedom of religion or belief? If you enforce the latter, where does this leave separation of church and state?

There may be no direct parallel with abortion, but if you regard it as a moral wrong on religious grounds surely you have the right to campaign for its abolition, especially in a democracy, and all the more so when those in favour of it cannot say where a right to abortion comes from.
 

mudsticks

Squire
There is an interesting dilemma in the statement. On the one hand:

We commit to uphold and protect gender equality, non-discrimination and freedom of religion or belief.

On the other:

Discriminatory personal status laws, laws that allow harmful practices, or restrict women’s and girls’ full and equal enjoyment of all human rights, including sexual and reproductive health and rights, bodily autonomy, and other laws that justify, condone, or reinforce violence, discrimination, or inequalities on the grounds of religion, belief or gender should be repealed

What do you do when a religious belief is in conflict with a law on equality? The NT ban on women being pastors would be a good example, and as far as I know also reflected in Judaism or Islam. Should you exempt churches from equality legislation on the grounds of freedom of religion, or include them thereby denying freedom of religion or belief? If you enforce the latter, where does this leave separation of church and state?

There may be no direct parallel with abortion, but if you regard it as a moral wrong on religious grounds surely you have the right to campaign for its abolition, especially in a democracy, and all the more so when those in favour of it cannot say where a right to abortion comes from.

My right to have access to safe reproductive healthcare comes from the same place as my right to access any other type of healthcare.

Individuals should be able decide for themselves where any kind of healthcare sits with their own religious beliefs.

Aiui Jehovah's witnesses eschew blood transfusions for themselves, on the grounds of their religious beliefs .

However, they don't get to deny me the right to a blood transfusion, or any other type of healthcare, based on their own beliefs.

Just as no one else should be making choices about whether or not I have to 'host' a foetus, or have to go through pregnancy or childbirth. .

It's incredibly arrogant for anyone to think they have the right to make me, or any other woman go through with that.

But there we are..Arrogance abounds.

The other stuff about NT rules on pastors only being men just shows how steeped in sexism 'Christianity' really is .

As are so many of the other religions.
They too are very keen on keeping patriachal control over women, and their bodies.

It's all pretty transparent what's going on to an outside observer who doesn't buy into the idea that inequality is baked in as immutable.

If people want to follow an inherently sexist religion that's up to them -although in many places it's actually forced upon them if religion is bound up with the state

I don't see why your, or anyone elses religious beliefs should impact my access to safe reproductive healthcare.

Sadly, some people seem very keen to force their beliefs on others.

Also sadly a lot of people don't seem to care that women are being denied access to safe reproductive healthcare.
 
OP
OP
Fab Foodie

Fab Foodie

Guru
No I did not miss the qualification, but the hypocrisy of the Christian church is writ large throughout history.
Much loving of one's neighbour in:
The numerous conflicts which have been fought, and lives lost, because someone wasn't Christian.
Christians killing other Christians, because they were the wrong "brand".
The Protestant church in Germany finding a way to be both Christian and supporting Nazism.
The pope and Hitler signing a concordat.
The practice of Jehovah's Witnesses shunning those who leave the church.
Sexual abuse by priests and bishops, which if recent history is anything to go by, has probably been going on centuries.
The indefensible practice of priests, ministers and bishops involved in sexual assaults, being moved on to other parishes.
And don't get me started on the sometimes brutal behaviour of monks, nuns and spinster Catholics teachers, with regards to children in their "care". Or the appalling activities which have taken place in Ireland under the umbrella of the church.

Yebbut, apart from that...what has religion ever done for us?
 

Salty seadog

Senior Member
My right to have access to safe reproductive healthcare comes from the same place as my right to access any other type of healthcare.

Individuals should be able decide for themselves where any kind of healthcare sits with their own religious beliefs.

Aiui Jehovah's witnesses eschew blood transfusions for themselves, on the grounds of their religious beliefs .

However, they don't get to deny me the right to a blood transfusion, or any other type of healthcare, based on their own beliefs.

Just as no one else should be making choices about whether or not I have to 'host' a foetus, or have to go through pregnancy or childbirth. .

It's incredibly arrogant for anyone to think they have the right to make me, or any other woman go through with that.

But there we are..Arrogance abounds.

The other stuff about NT rules on pastors only being men just shows how steeped in sexism 'Christianity' really is .

As are so many of the other religions.
They too are very keen on keeping patriachal control over women, and their bodies.

It's all pretty transparent what's going on to an outside observer who doesn't buy into the idea that inequality is baked in as immutable.

If people want to follow an inherently sexist religion that's up to them -although in many places it's actually forced upon them if religion is bound up with the state

I don't see why your, or anyone elses religious beliefs should impact my access to safe reproductive healthcare.

Sadly, some people seem very keen to force their beliefs on others.

Also sadly a lot of people don't seem to care that women are being denied access to safe reproductive healthcare.

Are we still OK to use a prophylactic?


View: https://youtu.be/fUspLVStPbk
 

mudsticks

Squire
Are we still OK to use a prophylactic?


View: https://youtu.be/fUspLVStPbk


I'm not opening that again.

I was humming it for a whole day after last time..
:rolleyes:
 

mudsticks

Squire
Well this one turned out a bit better though.

But I mean, look at all those dudes in the pic though..??

Imagine if a whole bunch of women got together and somehow used the law to force men to have unwanted stuff happen to their bodies.??

https://www.orlandoweekly.com/news/...ing-mocked-by-florida-rep-matt-gaetz-32148271

Why has anyone put up with any of this for so long.??

Time for all women and all the decent men to put this thing to bed, once and for all.
 

Unkraut

Master of the Inane Comment
Location
Germany
Yebbut, apart from that...what has religion ever done for us?

Given an ethical or moral framework that restricts what individuals claim as their right for the benefit of the common good. Looking at Bazzer's examples, the NT as the defining documents of Christianity explains why pretty well everything in that list is morally wrong.

Surely the irony is not lost on you when a society that has to a large extent rejected Christian sex ethics (restricted to one and and one women for life) then complains at priests and bishops when they fail to live out the very ethics such a society has itself rejected.
 

theclaud

Reading around the chip
Surely the irony is not lost on you when a society that has to a large extent rejected Christian sex ethics (restricted to one and and one women for life) then complains at priests and bishops when they fail to live out the very ethics such a society has itself rejected.

Sorry, what? The complaint is about the church and its repressive moral frameworks so reliably producing large numbers of men who f*ck children, and about the whole apparatus being so perfectly conducive to sheltering them. I know your schtick is always handwringing about how all the (entirely predictable) horrific outcomes of 'Christian sex ethics' are moral failures of individuals, but from the outside it sure looks like a feature, not a bug.
 

mudsticks

Squire
Given an ethical or moral framework that restricts what individuals claim as their right for the benefit of the common good. Looking at Bazzer's examples, the NT as the defining documents of Christianity explains why pretty well everything in that list is morally wrong.

Surely the irony is not lost on you when a society that has to a large extent rejected Christian sex ethics (restricted to one and and one women for life) then complains at priests and bishops when they fail to live out the very ethics such a society has itself rejected.

Honestly you don't need belief in supernatural forces to understand what is or isn't ethical behaviour.

You think we couldn't understand that causing suffering to others was bad, and so design a society and system of laws that sought to restrict those behaviours, and encourage better ones.

The Taoist traditon, paganism, the Vedas, and Buddhist philosophy, and much else besides all have the minimising of harm to oneself and to others contained within.
Predating Christianity .

As does our secular humanism.



And srsly.. priests cant behave and indulge in child abuse and other power abuses, because people won't 'Do Christianity properly' and restrict themselves to 'one woman' for life.. :rolleyes:

Do us wimmin only get one woman too??

I'm not sure if this maths is going to work out..🤔

Oops Claud beat me to it far more succinctly..

TMN Claud..🙏🏼
 
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