Another Labour lass torpedoes the party

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Rusty Nails

Country Member
They mean as much as any other poster's.

Like it or not, you cannot know what the jury thought of any part of her evidence.

It's perfectly possible they thought: "That stuff about bedrooms is a likely story, but as whole the case against her is a weak one, so it's not guilty."

Or they may have genuinely believed someone could live in an average house not knowing how many bedrooms it had or how many people were also in residence.

It's hearing comedy gold like that which makes sitting through otherwise dull court cases worthwhile.

I would have rejected that part of her evidence, but might still have voted for an acquittal if the rest of the case against her was as poor as it sounded.
Fair enough. We agree your opinion is just conjecture, especially but not only your third sentence, no more or less informed than anyone else reading about the case, and far less informed than those who heard all the evidence and came to the only judgement that mattered.
 
Another trial where reporting has gone quiet once the drama of the prosecution setting out its case is over.
 
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Pale Rider

Pale Rider

Veteran
Another trial where reporting has gone quiet once the drama of the prosecution setting out its case is over.

Yep, it's all a massive conspiracy with the lawyers, the magistrates, the Court Service, and the media all acting in consort to aid the Tories.

Alternatively, the case has been adjourned part heard until October 13.
 
Yep, it's all a massive conspiracy with the lawyers, the magistrates, the Court Service, and the media all acting in consort to aid the Tories.

Alternatively, the case has been adjourned part heard until October 13.

I wasn't suggesting a conspiracy, just emphasising the evident truth that day 2 and onwards of a hearing get far less publicity than day 1 when the prosecution plays its hand.

Was the adjournment reported by the media or were you able to trace it via court channels (or journo's bush telegraph)?

Searching for Claudia Webbe adjournment turns up a report in the Islington Gazette but not much else.
 
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Pale Rider

Pale Rider

Veteran
I wasn't suggesting a conspiracy, just emphasising the evident truth that day 2 and onwards of a hearing get far less publicity than day 1 when the prosecution plays its hand.

Was the adjournment reported by the media or were you able to trace it via court channels (or journo's bush telegraph)?

Searching for Claudia Webbe adjournment turns up a report in the Islington Gazette but not much else.

Can't recall where I read it, might have been in The Standard.

As a general point, the problem with multi-day trials is the proceeding days can be rather samey, with the same things being said as day one, just by different people.

No hard and fast rules, but the classic way to cover a trial is do the opening, then do the opening of the defence case, especially if the defendant gives evidence, then do the result.

I will always try to get a defence line in the opening story, but that's only possible if the jury is told one.

Routinely, the prosecutor will finish his opening with something like 'when arrested, the defendant claimed...', although if it's a no comment interview it can be difficult to legally work in a defence line.

In Webbe's case, the trial moved swiftly so the day one stories included the defence line about the MP making contact with the victim because she was concerned about a Covid breach.

Thus the day one stories were balanced, but they can only be a reflection of what was heard in court that day.

With some high profile cases, the newsdesks will want every dot and comma, even though much of it will still be repetitious.

In such a case, I may have to resort to doing the closing speeches and summing up by the judge, which will not see the light of day in reports of most trials.
 
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Pale Rider

Pale Rider

Veteran
She's been convicted:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/13/mp-claudia-webbe-found-guilty-of-harassment

Reports sketchy so far.

As it's a District Judge (what used to be a 'Stipe'?) then presumably there's an appeal route to the Crown Court?

Edit: There's a bit more detail on the BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-58900981

Yes, a criminal district judge is a full time paid judge who sits in magistrates' courts.

Rather like a stipendiary magistrate, although a district judge sits alone.

In all other respects it is a magistrates' court hearing, so maximum sentence usually six months, and any appeal would go to the crown court.

incidentally, a district judge has a uniquely powerful position in the English legal system.

He is the only judge sitting alone who can hear your case, decide on your guilt, and lock you up.

There must be at least two magistrates to sit on a trial, usually three.

A crown court judge can lock you up, but he first needs a jury to decide you are guilty.
 
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Pale Rider

Pale Rider

Veteran
Contempt is the other area where a Judge can determine both guilt and sentence.

I thought about listing the handful of exceptions.

There's also jury free crown court trials for terror and national security offences, but they are very rare and I believe at least some are heard by a panel of judges.

Going back to this case, from the quotes in the Beeb story Ms Webbe sounds arrogant and entitled - how dare you find me guilty?

I'd like to think the district judge will properly puncture the pomposity with a short stretch, but I doubt he will.
 

swansonj

Regular
Yes, a criminal district judge is a full time paid judge who sits in magistrates' courts.

Rather like a stipendiary magistrate, although a district judge sits alone.

In all other respects it is a magistrates' court hearing, so maximum sentence usually six months, and any appeal would go to the crown court.

incidentally, a district judge has a uniquely powerful position in the English legal system.

He is the only judge sitting alone who can hear your case, decide on your guilt, and lock you up.

There must be at least two magistrates to sit on a trial, usually three.

A crown court judge can lock you up, but he first needs a jury to decide you are guilty.
Or "she".
 
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