Badenoch's (Lack Of) Vision Quest

[Psamathe]

... Freedom and independence usually have a price worth paying though.

Depends on what and degree of those freedoms and what the price paid is. Would I pay £200,000 for the freedom to mow my lawn after 19:00 on a Saturday - of course not.

Would I pay to allow farmers the freedom to use pesticides that damage our environment?

Freedom is often a misused word and one where the result of a freedom is something more restrictive or more damaging. Most politicians seem to be saying immigration is something that is far far too high but it's also something that has happened due to our freedom (at a significant cost) to control our borders.

And then. there is freedom from who. Before Brexit many aspects were free from interference from Westminster; after Brexit some parts of the UK want freedom from Westminster. "Freedom" in the context of Brexit is not "Freedom" but just a change of oversight and election methodologies.

 

[Beebo]

I was never aware of any unicorns. Freedom and independence usually have a price worth paying though.

And one of the prices worth paying is the fact we can no longer deport the small boat crossings back to France.
It’s a factor of Brexit but no one will acknowledge that the problem is of their own making.
And the Reform supporters are either not interested or don’t care about the fact they caused the problem which they don’t like.

 

[briantrumpet]

I reckon I might have found @Stevo 666's Brexit unicorn

Oi, there's a unicorn sanctuary for discussing these matters.

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

And the Reform supporters are either not interested or don’t care about the fact they caused the problem which they don’t like.

I would be amazed if (m)any of them actuallly knew this.

 

[First Aspect]

I was never aware of any unicorns. Freedom and independence usually have a price worth paying though.

Given the tenor of the pre referendum debate concerning stopping free migration, bountiful trade deals and millions of willy-pounds to the NHS, I am not convinced that many people see their new freedom and independence as value for money.

 

[Stevo 666]

Depends on what and degree of those freedoms and what the price paid is. Would I pay £200,000 for the freedom to mow my lawn after 19:00 on a Saturday - of course not.

Would I pay to allow farmers the freedom to use pesticides that damage our environment?

Freedom is often a misused word and one where the result of a freedom is something more restrictive or more damaging. Most politicians seem to be saying immigration is something that is far far too high but it's also something that has happened due to our freedom (at a significant cost) to control our borders.

And then. there is freedom from who. Before Brexit many aspects were free from interference from Westminster; after Brexit some parts of the UK want freedom from Westminster. "Freedom" in the context of Brexit is not "Freedom" but just a change of oversight and election methodologies.

Freedom to make decisions as a country. And not being tied to a high regulation, high tax, low growth bloc whose share of global GDP is continually shrinking.

What was the attraction of being ruled by Brussels?

 

[Stevo 666]

And one of the prices worth paying is the fact we can no longer deport the small boat crossings back to France.
It’s a factor of Brexit but no one will acknowledge that the problem is of their own making.
And the Reform supporters are either not interested or don’t care about the fact they caused the problem which they don’t like.

How many people who crossed on small boats did we send back pre-Brexit? A lot of people mention the old arrangement without ever mentioning whether it was effective in real life.

 

[Stevo 666]

Given the tenor of the pre referendum debate concerning stopping free migration, bountiful trade deals and millions of willy-pounds to the NHS, I am not convinced that many people see their new freedom and independence as value for money.

Each to their own.

 

[Stevo 666]

And the chances of us rejoining the EU are practically zero, so no use crying over split milk.

 

[C R]

 

[First Aspect]

How many people who crossed on small boats did we send back pre-Brexit? A lot of people mention the old arrangement without ever mentioning whether it was effective in real life.

Didn't it require asylum applications to be processed at the first country of entry to the EU? (Much to the annoyance of the states on the southern borders, and to the UKs benefit.)

 

[Psamathe]

Freedom to make decisions as a country. And not being tied to a high regulation, high tax, low growth bloc whose share of global GDP is continually shrinking.

What was the attraction of being ruled by Brussels?

Governance is regional. Some Governance on a sub-county level, some on a county basis, some devolved governance eg Scotland, some national, some European, some international.

Brussels just happens to be where one level was sometimes located. EU was well democratic (better than UK). Their policies were better considered and longer term based and more focused on people than profits for elite mega-wealthy than Westminster.

Taxes certainly high in the UK (and by all accounts getting higher).

What is do magical about "country" and if making your own decisions is so crucial why can'ht Scotland or Wales have the same?

 

[Stevo 666]

Didn't it require asylum applications to be processed at the first country of entry to the EU? (Much to the annoyance of the states on the southern borders, and to the UKs benefit.)

That doesn't answer my question unfortunately.

 

[Stevo 666]

Governance is regional. Some Governance on a sub-county level, some on a county basis, some devolved governance eg Scotland, some national, some European, some international.

Brussels just happens to be where one level was sometimes located. EU was well democratic (better than UK). Their policies were better considered and longer term based and more focused on people than profits for elite mega-wealthy than Westminster.

Taxes certainly high in the UK (and by all accounts getting higher).

What is do magical about "country" and if making your own decisions is so crucial why can'ht Scotland or Wales have the same?

Who decides whether EU policies are 'better considered'?

EU rules (volumes them aside) are nearly always going to be a compromise given the large number of member states and vested interests etc. Much less so if it's just the UK, so easier to make sure that the rules are appropriate for the country.

Scotland and Wales can push off if they really want to.

 

[First Aspect]

That doesn't answer my question unfortunately.

No, it just totally buggers up the point you were trying to make.