Cardiff electric bike incident

[Bromptonaut]

I think we need to be in full receipt of the facts before forming any judgement. In particular the nature of the crash, because it is extraordinary that both should be killed outright.

I'm not sure why it's extraordinary. If you've two people close together who are effectively powered pedestrians and who, say, ride onto the path of a vehicle or crack their skulls on a solid object it's no surprise if they both suffer the same outcome.

Or are you suggesting there's something being hidden from us?

 

[fozy tornip]

Did anyone else see that shadowy figure on the grassy knoll?

 

[multitool]

I'm not sure why it's extraordinary. If you've two people close together who are effectively powered pedestrians and who, say, ride onto the path of a vehicle or crack their skulls on a solid object it's no surprise if they both suffer the same outcome.

Or are you suggesting there's something being hidden from us?

I just find it strange that both died at what would have been a relatively low speed crash. Unless of course they had a head-on with a car and therefore a high combined speed.

Pre-cycle helmets in the Tour de France I can only recall one death, amongst the hundreds, nay thousands of low and high speed crashes.

I'm not inferring anything untoward, but it is extraordinary.

 

[Mr Celine]

I just find it strange that both died at what would have been a relatively low speed crash. Unless of course they had a head-on with a car and therefore a high combined speed.

Pre-cycle helmets in the Tour de France I can only recall one death, amongst the hundreds, nay thousands of low and high speed crashes.

I'm not inferring anything untoward, but it is extraordinary.

A number that stuck in my head from engineering was the 64g deceleration of unrestrained car occupants if the car collided with a solid immovable object while travelling at 30mph.
I was trying to find a source for this but found this calculator
https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/car-crash-force
which suggests the answer is actually 245g.
If you can't do a press up with 64 (or 245) people sitting on top of you, riding into a brick wall at 30mph isn't going to end well.

 

[multitool]

Can an electric bike do 30mph?

 

[Deleted member 49]

Can an electric bike do 30mph?

Are you kidding...a lot of these bikes will do 50/60 mph.So many kids round here with them.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Can an electric bike do 30mph?

Not while being legal, but I've no doubt 30 or more is possible...

As @Adam4868 says, quite a lot more. There's plenty of observer evidence of cars doing 30 being caught and passed.

I don't suppose the range at that speed is anything to write home about but if you're only after a thrill that's not an issue.

 

[Deleted member 49]

My son had a converted Cube mountain bike that would easily do 35/40 mph...I'm glad it got stolen in a selfish way !
But these other bikes that look like crossers will do 60/70 ! cost a good few grand aswell.

 

[Xipe Totec]

The Graun report about this says it was a Sur-Ron - they're electric off-road motorcycles, not bicycles.

https://surron.co.uk/pages/surron-bike-availability

 

[matticus]

I've no idea what happened but I can feel a strong opinion forming.

has it cleared yet? Some fibre might help?

 

[matticus]

Seems to me from what I've read that the police first denied chasing the boys and then admitted they were....otherwise known as lying.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...as-pursuing-teenagers-in-cardiff-force-admits

Meanwhile 150 rioters set light to cars/property, nothing to do with police.

People were shocked at what they saw when day broke. “It’s like a war zone, Iraq or something,” said one, Hannah, who spent the early hours consoling her daughters, aged five and seven.


Some children picked their way through the rubble to school; many others stayed at home or roamed around in pyjamas and dressing gowns.

Ahmad, whose taxi was attacked, said rioters had jumped all over his car and thrown missiles at it. “I couldn’t believe what I was seeing,” he said. “I heard one of them saying they wanted to kill a police officer.” - Grauniad

 

[matticus]

South Wales Police are even better.

I expect that like the MET, they are a mixed bag - but I'm pretty sure a few earned their pensions on Monday night.

 

[spen666]

It is important in discussing this and considering it not to conflate separate issues:


1. The Police Misinformation
The initial statements put out by the police were incorrect. Why this was done it is wrong. It is ironic that a later statement from the police on the night talked about police statements needing to be accurate ( in context of why there were not more detailed updates). Sadly, police forces have a habit of putting out self serving false statements and later admitting the truth after thie public believe the initial statement. The most famous of these was perhaps South yorkshire Police saying in immediate aftermath of Hillsborough that the fans forced the gate, when in fact Chief superintendent David Duckinfield had ordered the gate to be opened. Many people still believe Liverpool fans forced the gate even now .
I would like to see a wider investigation into this sort of conduct by the various police forces, and action taken against anyone who authorises the release of such misinformation in future

2. The Crash
How the crash occurred and who was to blame. Yes, it may be the 2 males were on an illegal bike and did not have insurance, helmets etc. This is not necessarily relevant to the cause of the crash. Someone clearly was not driving / riding lawfully for the accident to occur. Eg did deceased ride on wrong side of road or did they ignore traffice signs etc. Alternatively did driver / rider of any other vehicle do anything unlawful, eg speeding, driving on wrong side of road, ignore traffic signs etc

3. The Conduct of the Deceased
Were they riding a vehicle unlawfully and without helmets etc. Were they driving dangerously.

4. The Response of the Police
What should the police do in such circumstances? If they do not follow or chase criminals, the conduct will continue or escalate. If the police follow or chase a suspected criminal, why are the police held responsible by some for the crash caused by the suspects fleeing the scene

There are probably more issues than this, but they are all separate issues. For example, the police misinformation is not relevant to the cause of the crash ie the crash had occurred before the police misinformation, so it does not contribute to the cause of the crash

 

[MrGrumpy]

My son had a converted Cube mountain bike that would easily do 35/40 mph...I'm glad it got stolen in a selfish way !
But these other bikes that look like crossers will do 60/70 ! cost a good few grand aswell.
View attachment 3927

I’ve seen similar locally to me , had to do a double take . The guy did have a helmet on mind ! However still illegal I’m guessing , even if holding a Mc licence. Insurance/tax etc . let’s just say he was riding it like I stole it !

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Watching BBC News, the word "following" was used, then, in next sentence "chasing"

Above we have two new variations.

In the video shown, there appeared to be a significant time gap between the e-bike and the Police van. Without knowing the speed of the vehicles in question, it is hard to estimate the distance in metres (or yards, for the the brexiteers) .

Not sure the time gap was "significant" - seemed pretty close for the speed and the width of the road

not "trying to knock them off" close - but if I was following them that is about where I would be