COP26: All talk or some real action on climate change?

[Unkraut]

Just to be clear 'thousands' of us didn't jet here.

I know, I've not got you in mind. I deliberately said long-haul flights that use unbelievable amounts of fuel. 330 000 litres per flight for a jumbo.

(one big reason they are not alike - climate change affects us all, not just the preacher and his wife/mistress/girlfriend. Totally different type of issue

You are missing the point. It's the hypocrisy of saying one thing but then doing the opposite in the way you behave. It rightly undercuts your credibility. Colleagues of mine who are really into climate change but who drive at over 100 mph all over the Autobahn, squandering fuel.

I thought you would reply that such behaviour doesn't determine the truth or otherwise of the claims being made. It does bring into question whether those making claims actually believe them themselves.

You can be as cynical as you like, poke fun all you like.

It's difficult not to be cynical sometimes, but I am certainly not poking fun. The issue is too serious for that.

Do you really think XR has a leader?

The interview was between Piers Morgan and a representative of XR. He was assertive (read: a pain), but the reaction of Mrs XR was to be defensive, and become another example of wanting everyone to change to save the planet whilst carrying on as normal in her own life. Defending the indefensible. She could easily have defused the criticism by saying in future she too would have to give things up. It was embarrassing to watch, and I didn't see it to the end, so she might have redeemed herself a bit later.

Whatever you think of Morgan and who doesn't, he is right to ask whether the 'activists' on the streets are willing themselves to start going without for the sake of the planet. Dramatically reduce the time spent on the internet/social media, it consumes vast amounts of electricity.

This kind of inconsistency is common. Don't listen to Lord Moncton he's not a climate scientist, but do listen to Al Gore who is not a climate scientist.

Follow the science when it comes to climate change, but ignore it when it comes to transgenderism.

It seems to me there are three aspects to climate change. The science, which ought to be objective. The politics, which is a power struggle regarding which it is difficult if not impossible now to disentangle from the science. Also to some extent religion, this is becoming the purpose in life for some, it is their religion and their God.

 

[Pale Rider]

I see Charles Moore's used the infamous "Project Fear" bomb about climate change now...
soon we'll see it touring the UK on that old diesel-powered red bus.

A 'like' for the mention of a red bus.

I see one of the climate change punters has a big (blue) electric bus to promote their cause.

Not sure exactly what it was all about.

 

[matticus]

I thought you would reply that such behaviour doesn't determine the truth or otherwise of the claims being made.

Yes, that's also very true!

(I thought it was self-evident, if I'm honest ... )

 

[matticus]

It rightly undercuts your credibility.

But so what? Are you telling people not to listen to the "hypocrites"? Or do you have better spokespersons lined up - in which case you really ought to make that clear!

Who should people listen to? It seems that sainthood plus a relevant PHD is the minimum required to be immune to these allegations of "hypocrisy". I see a rather transparent excuse when most people shout "hypocrisy!" ...

 

[mjr]

The interview was between Piers Morgan and a representative of XR. He was assertive (read: a pain), but the reaction of Mrs XR was to be defensive,

I seriously doubt she was a representative of XR. She might have been a rebel but I cannot see XR approving a rep to talk to Piers ruddy Morgan.

Being defensive when faced with him is understandable. It is probably better than being offensive like I probably would be!

Whatever you think of Morgan and who doesn't, he is right to ask whether the 'activists' on the streets are willing themselves to start going without for the sake of the planet.

No, he isn't. That is pretty much textbook "playing the man not the ball". It may be right to ask why they do not if they don't and that would be a whole lot more illuminating than just asking a stream of will you give up this and will you stop doing that.

It seems to me there are three aspects to climate change. The science, which ought to be objective. The politics, which is a power struggle regarding which it is difficult if not impossible now to disentangle from the science. Also to some extent religion, this is becoming the purpose in life for some, it is their religion and their God.

I am pretty sure that is insulting to scientists, politicians and activists!

 

[mudsticks]

But so what? Are you telling people not to listen to the "hypocrites"? Or do you have better spokespersons lined up - in which case you really ought to make that clear!

Who should people listen to? It seems that sainthood plus a relevant PHD is the minimum required to be immune to these allegations of "hypocrisy". I see a rather transparent excuse when most people shout "hypocrisy!" ...

Exactly..

Doesn't matter how saintly you are someone will point at something and go.

"But what about X y or z, that you do.. ??"

The point is that it needs to be made easier to do the right thing (for everyone, regardless of whether they're committed environmentalists or not) ..Not nearly always the harder option.

The really relatively few activists who are coming from far away, are here to represent on behalf of their countries and groups .

Such as indigenous peoples already threatened, and affected by climate change .

A climate change they didn't cause, but are suffering from.

Should they not come, whilst self important western business people ,and holiday makers fly about the place for no really good reason??

In previous years COPs commitments have been made to the global south to help with finance and tech, for climate change amelioration, this hasn't been fulfilled.

We're all still not doing what needs to to be done.

What could and should be done

Making out that activists from threatened nations , are hypocrites for coming here to hold industrialised nations to account , is of course the true hypocrisy .

5hrs on the streets, today, very good natured , up to a hundred thousand people.

Pretty impressive given the weather.

Very sore feet now

 

[Rusty Nails]

Like it or not important changes that affect the future of the world can only be started by "blah blah, blah" from world leaders. The important thing is not this "blah, blah, blah" but the changes that come about as a result of it.

All this "blah, blah, blah", or in more historical terms "jaw, jaw, jaw" discussion and decision making is absolutely essential, so the issue is how best, and most effectively, this can be carried out. It is a moot point whether online, or Zoom, discussions involving leaders and their advisers/executives can ever be as effective as face-to-face meetings in arriving at these decisions, and imo I doubt they really can, so I believe it is a price that has to be paid. I cannot blame activists such as Thunberg for using such rhetoric to try and force the pace of change and, hopefully, their efforts will help concentrate the minds of world leaders and prod them into faster action.

In the context of overall world carbon creation from transport the amount produced by this conference is absolutely infinitessimal, in anything other than symbolism or pointless box-ticking, and deflects from the importance in arriving at some form of international concensus.

The jury is still out on whether this conference will help make any significant change but the only other alternative is worldwide revolution...which, in the remote chance of it happening, would probably not happen anyway until it is far too late, especially in the major polluting countries.

 

[Mr Celine]

5hrs on the streets, today, very good natured , up to a hundred thousand people.

Pretty impressive given the weather.

Very sore feet now

Me too.

Half way round there was a spectacular rainbow.

And at the end I saw a unicorn.

Was this a benefit of brexit?

 

[mudsticks]

Me too.
View attachment 182

Half way round there was a spectacular rainbow.

And at the end I saw a unicorn.

View attachment 183

Was this a benefit of brexit?

Nice slide in of the B Bomb there

The weather was proper Scottish, wasn't it.
But still not that cold...

I liked how all the elements got a cheer, the downpours, the rainbows, and even the occasional glimpse of the sun..

We managed to get these birds (a turtle dove , and a corncrake) all the way round despite the wind and rain..

A slightly less hectic day today, I think before starting again on Monday.

 

[Ian H]

Carlton Reid notices that the emphasis there is entirely on electric cars, and that bicycles (even ebikes) don't get a look in. Meanwhile Volvo apparently says that it will take 9yrs for an electric car to break even in terms of carbon costs.

 

[Unkraut]

She might have been a rebel but I cannot see XR approving a rep to talk to Piers ruddy Morgan.

Couldn't be bothered to listen to more than a couple of minutes of it on YT, but was enough to confirm Morgan being a pain and Rathor as being evasive and inconsistent:
Piers Clashes With Extinction Rebellion Co-Leader Skeena Rathor Over Protests | Good Morning Britain

Rathor is Co-Leader, spokesperson and strategist for XR.

Are you telling people not to listen to the "hypocrites"?

I don't think people do listen to hypocrites.

Who should people listen to?

Faith without works is dead. At least listen to someone whose actions are reasonably in line with what they claim to believe.

Conversely, give credit where credit is due. Thunberg - has often recently said nothing is being done about climate change.

Since 1990, carbon dioxide emissions in Germany have been falling almost continuously. The main reasons in the first few years were the economic restructuring in the new federal states. Since then, it has been the federal government's active climate protection policy, which, however, can also be overlaid by weather-related effects in individual years. ...
Compared to 1990, carbon dioxide emissions have decreased by 38.8%. (Federal environment ministry)

That may or may not be enough, but it is not nothing. Restructuring the entire car industry whilst trying not to increase unemployment is not nothing. Blah blah blah ... Thunberg needs challenging on this, not shepherded away from questions. It's rather unnerving just how much her adoring fans hang on her every word. Freedom of speech - yes, but think about what you are being told.

Watching Thunberg's recent performances it once again struck me how this whole 'activist' thing is dominated by women. I first noticed this on this side of the Channel, but once again virtually all interviews were with girls. I'm still mulling over what, if anything, is the significance of this. I have a suspicion ...

 

[Deleted member 49]

Watching Thunberg's recent performances it once again struck me how this whole 'activist' thing is dominated by women. I first noticed this on this side of the Channel, but once again virtually all interviews were with girls. I'm still mulling over what, if anything, is the significance of this. I have a suspicion ...

Except that's not really true....took this from a article my partner was reading....
When the global face to climate action is Greta Thunberg, it can appear that women and girls are well represented at the top table. As the U.K. opens the 26th UN Climate Change Conference of the Parties (COP26) in Glasgow, the lack of women’s senior leadership in climate negotiations has been raised as an issue of concern by activists.
SHE Changes Climate, a campaign founded in 2020 to call for equal gender representation in climate negotiations, claims that men took up 10 of the 12 UK leadership team positions. “Lack of female leadership in climate decisions affects our economy, our social structure, our ability to innovate and create solutions,” said Antoinette Vermilye, Co-Founder of the campaign. They sent an open letter to the U.K. Government in 2020, calling on them for greater accountability and transparency on male/female parity on the U.K. COP26 leadership team. Their letter has been supported by over 450 male and female environmental leaders, including Mary Robinson, the former Irish President and United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, and Ellie Goulding, the pop star and COP26 Ambassador. However, according to the group, the COP26 team did not deliver on the group’s demands, even though the letter was sent almost a year ago.

 

[Ian H]

I don't think people do listen to hypocrites.

It's not hypocrisy to decide that a certain amount of carbon emissions are worth 'spending' in the cause of persuading those in power to make significant long-term reductions.

Watching Thunberg's recent performances it once again struck me how this whole 'activist' thing is dominated by women. I first noticed this on this side of the Channel, but once again virtually all interviews were with girls. I'm still mulling over what, if anything, is the significance of this. I have a suspicion ...

Some do believe that the world will end if 'girls' are allowed to dominate the discussion.

 

[matticus]

matticus said:
Who should people listen to?

Faith without works is dead. At least listen to someone whose actions are reasonably in line with what they claim to believe.

Such as?

 

[mudsticks]

Couldn't be bothered to listen to more than a couple of minutes of it on YT, but was enough to confirm Morgan being a pain and Rathor as being evasive and inconsistent:
Piers Clashes With Extinction Rebellion Co-Leader Skeena Rathor Over Protests | Good Morning Britain

Rathor is Co-Leader, spokesperson and strategist for XR.

I don't think people do listen to hypocrites.

Faith without works is dead. At least listen to someone whose actions are reasonably in line with what they claim to believe.

Conversely, give credit where credit is due. Thunberg - has often recently said nothing is being done about climate change.

Since 1990, carbon dioxide emissions in Germany have been falling almost continuously. The main reasons in the first few years were the economic restructuring in the new federal states. Since then, it has been the federal government's active climate protection policy, which, however, can also be overlaid by weather-related effects in individual years. ...
Compared to 1990, carbon dioxide emissions have decreased by 38.8%. (Federal environment ministry)

That may or may not be enough, but it is not nothing. Restructuring the entire car industry whilst trying not to increase unemployment is not nothing. Blah blah blah ... Thunberg needs challenging on this, not shepherded away from questions. It's rather unnerving just how much her adoring fans hang on her every word. Freedom of speech - yes, but think about what you are being told.

Watching Thunberg's recent performances it once again struck me how this whole 'activist' thing is dominated by women. I first noticed this on this side of the Channel, but once again virtually all interviews were with girls. I'm still mulling over what, if anything, is the significance of this. I have a suspicion ...

There are a high proportion of women activists in many climate, and other social justice movements..

Is this anything to do with their tendency to give a shoot about stuff not directly connected with their own egos , greed , domination, discinclination to venerate violence in all its forms and the instinct for cooperation and collaboration, when allowed to do so.

Along with a disinclination towards patriachal structures of ownership and 'control'

That seem particularly prevelent in the capitalistic model .

I don't know, but it's food for thought eh.??

However it's still men that get listened to right??

Female agroecologists, like myself, who've been 'at it' for years aren't really given much credance

Until a guy comes along and says "This is good"

Ah well, twas ever this

Except that's not really true....took this from a article my partner was reading....
When the global face to climate action is Greta Thunberg, it can appear that women and girls are well represented at the top table. As the U.K. opens the 26th UN Climate Change Conference of the Parties (COP26) in Glasgow, the lack of women’s senior leadership in climate negotiations has been raised as an issue of concern by activists.
SHE Changes Climate, a campaign founded in 2020 to call for equal gender representation in climate negotiations, claims that men took up 10 of the 12 UK leadership team positions. “Lack of female leadership in climate decisions affects our economy, our social structure, our ability to innovate and create solutions,” said Antoinette Vermilye, Co-Founder of the campaign. They sent an open letter to the U.K. Government in 2020, calling on them for greater accountability and transparency on male/female parity on the U.K. COP26 leadership team. Their letter has been supported by over 450 male and female environmental leaders, including Mary Robinson, the former Irish President and United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, and Ellie Goulding, the pop star and COP26 Ambassador. However, according to the group, the COP26 team did not deliver on the group’s demands, even though the letter was sent almost a year ago.

Exactly..

We're the dedicated foot soldiers..

But step foot inside the 'blue zone' suddenly it reverts to the usual suspects....