COP26: All talk or some real action on climate change?

[Unkraut]

As @Bromptonaut just said they were selectively quoted and released so as to take them out of context and to sow the seeds of doubt.

The mails themselves gave the context. Have you ever considered that the conspiracy was to do damage limitation on the exposure of scientists not being totally honest in their research and dealings with those they disagree with?

It passed panic a few years back when we passed the tipping point, ...

Which of the many Al Gore tipping points do you have in mind?

I'm not sure what your point is though ?

My noticing the female predominance of climate discussions may not have any point whatsoever! It's a bit strange though in the new era of equality. Perhaps we are seeing the rise of the Matriarchy.

 

[Deleted member 49]

My noticing the female predominance of climate discussions may not have any point whatsoever! It's a bit strange though in the new era of equality. Perhaps we are seeing the rise of the Matriarchy.

I've not given it as much thought as you,plus I know a lot less about it than a lot.My partner to my shame is more involved in the climate crisis and had been for years.As a staunch feminist she would argue it's been that way for a long time.Early 70s eco feminism ? A lot of her own work is environmental and the connection between females and the earth through art and such mostly.Anyway far too deep for late at night.The point being I'm not sure this is anything new as you seem to think.Maybe it's been put out there as such to discredit the activists in some way ?

 

[Fab Foodie]

I'm cautiously optimistic.
Because I have to be.
As a long time activist and campaigner on all this, we've seen a lot more talk , than necessary action.

But also some progress..

It's a shame the UK hasn't shown better leadership on all this. We're generally good at tech, innovation. and solution finding .

But right now we don't seem to have a government with enough backbone to resist the push back of the oil companies .

There are some signs of hope, and changes of mindset.
Not least in terms of how well informed , and willing to act, large chunks of the population now are.

We have the solutions, we know the science have the knowledge, and methodologies.

Now the challenge is to implement it all, and quickly enough..
Acting too late , is almost as bad as not acting at all.

A cleaner greener more equitable world could be within our grasp.

But the business as usual mob are still a massive impediment.

The pandemic has shown how possible it is to change our behaviour globally, if the incentive is strong enough.

Sadly this year's COP is even more unjust than previous ones , on account of those most affected by CC in the global south, are now largely being excluded by covid inequality, on top of everything else .

I'm going along as part of a civil society group to advocate on behalf of agroecological farming, and food justice.

It's key in tackling CC as an alternative to industrialised agriculture, both here , and globally .

We offer solutions in terms of sustainable farming techniques, biodiversity enhancement, regenerative, carbon capturing soil rebuilding, more employment, and local food resilience.

And lots more..

In addition to running our own events and workshops , we get a bit of time in the 'suits' space as well, so will be interesting to see what transpires there.

So a lot of farm prep to do, and other organising before heading off.

Will report back, if I survive the whole thing..

…and that was CC’s reporter @mudsticks live from Cop-out 26

And next on NACA, shocking news as Brexiteer apologises for crap decision.…

 

[Fab Foodie]

I think the Queen, as ever, nailed it.

And what green initiatives has she, her estates and her immediate family done/doing that have an impact?
How does she/Royal fam and Royal estates show leadership by example?
All I see is another ‘leader’ that Is all talk and no action….

 

[theclaud]

And what green initiatives has she, her estates and her immediate family done/doing that have an impact?
How does she/Royal fam and Royal estates show leadership by example?
All I see is another ‘leader’ that Is all talk and no action….

Andrew is trying very hard to avoid flying across the Atlantic, to be fair.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Yes, this in spades. We have a Motorhome (LEZ Compliant), it amazes me how many people ask "will I have to pay if I enter LEZ", on various Motorhome forums. They are on the Internet (because they are asking in a forum), there is a perfectly good, usable website which will answer the question accurately, all they have to do is enter their vehicle Registration Number.

Online Motorhome forums make me despair for the human race! But am sure it the same for many other forums. CC is a paragon of virtue in comparison.

 

[matticus]

And what green initiatives has she, her estates and her immediate family done/doing that have an impact?
How does she/Royal fam and Royal estates show leadership by example?
All I see is another ‘leader’ that Is all talk and no action….

Ah. Talking of hypocrits, up he pops ...

 

[Fab Foodie]

Ah. Talking of hypocrits, up he pops ...

Eh what me old fruit?

 

[matticus]

Eh what me old fruit?

You think you're clean as the driven snow, on issues such as ... say, flying to meetings?

 

[mjr]

I have read some quite appalling abuse of Thunberg, which is inexcusable, but also inexcusable for her parents to have exposed her to this in the first place.

I don't, however, think she should be above criticism.

No one here is saying she should be above criticism. However, that criticism should be reasoned.

The anonymous open letter you quote seems to be attempting to use advances in infant mortality to excuse continuing unnecessary pollution, which is absurd, concluding with an argument that we shouldn't panic, but I don't recall Greta standing under a banner calling for panic. It's the second-worst sort of distracting rhetoric and I'm disappointed you seem to have fallen for it.

Try this open letter for size:

"Dear Greta,

You have done the world an invaluable service by managing almost single-handedly to finally make climate protection in politics and society what it should be when viewed soberly: the greatest human problem of the 21st century. Precisely because you have achieved something almost 'unbelievable' for your age, you should also be subject to thorough criticism when you are wrong. No, we haven't destroyed your youth. We have created a world that offers better life chances for young people than ever before in history.

For as long as mankind has existed, it has been plagued by three great scourges: Hunger, epidemics and wars. The proportion of undernourished people worldwide has fallen from 28% to 11% since 1970. Diseases such as smallpox and plague have been eradicated. While almost a hundred million people were killed in wars in the 20th century, there have been less than two million war casualties in the last 20 years. In 1800, the life expectancy of a newborn was only 30 years. Today, the length of time a person likely to live is 72 years. Infant mortality worldwide has fallen from 44% to 4% in the same period.

These almost unbelievable achievements are the fruit of planned action in complex and networked systems. States, institutions and companies work hand in hand for better living conditions for people. Yes, we have lost sight of the well-being of the natural world in the process. Ecosystems are in danger. Climate change threatens us all. We should heed you in taking immediate and decisive action instead of continuing to sleep - like our government. But we must not panic, because we may then destroy the very structures on which the majority of humanity depends for its life, and which we will also need to stop climate change."

 

[Pale Rider]

And what green initiatives has she, her estates and her immediate family done/doing that have an impact?
How does she/Royal fam and Royal estates show leadership by example?
All I see is another ‘leader’ that Is all talk and no action….

Chas and the Duchy are well into that sort of stuff.

The Queen, of course, is beyond criticism.

 

[stowie]

You think you're clean as the driven snow, on issues such as ... say, flying to meetings?

The old hypocrite thing doesn't stand scrutiny. It ends up being a justification for inaction and doesn't actually solve anything.

I used to fly a lot for work. I had no choice other than quitting my job - a pretty extreme measure - as I had little influence on what the company deemed necessary travel for me. This issue comes down to agency.

Change comes from the top - from the people with most agency to influence. For us minions it is mostly a case of "whilst the music is playing, we dance". Because doing otherwise has a high personal cost compared with the effect.

 

[mudsticks]

The mails themselves gave the context. Have you ever considered that the conspiracy was to do damage limitation on the exposure of scientists not being totally honest in their research and dealings with those they disagree with?

Which of the many Al Gore tipping points do you have in mind?

My noticing the female predominance of climate discussions may not have any point whatsoever! It's a bit strange though in the new era of equality. Perhaps we are seeing the rise of the Matriarchy.

We are seeing greater visibility of eco feminists perhaps.

But they can be of either gender or neither
It's just about equality.
Women aren't seeking to dominate, in the way that men have done for centuries.

There is no predominance of women here at the COP , there are still far more men at the top table.

But as Adam says there has been very strong representation in environmental work, concern and campaigning since the very beginning.

Lady Eve Balfour, Jane Goodall, Vandana Shiva, Rachel Carson, spring to mind just off the top of my head.

Greta Thunberg is just another voice of concern, adding to many others.
Perhaps people such as yourself need to focus on her less, and the issue far more. I'm sure she'd prefer that .

Climate change us already affecting many people in the global south, it's not a far distant spectre..This is now.

There are countless committed women whose voices you could choose to listen to

This is an issue that particularly engages women, especially in the face of 'trad' male stubborn resistance to change, or refusal to acknowledge that the fossil fuel path should have been stepped away from decades ago.

That resources and energy should have gone elsewhere.


Perhaps it's to do with having a more holistic view.
Perhaps we grasp the idea of scarce and precious resources, given those are the conditions we often live under ourselves..

Perhaps we find it easier see that we are all integrated, and part of, and dependant on nature and ecosystems for our survival.

Not apart from, and separate, and superior to, the natural world.

Nor that we are entitled to 'own' extract and exploit in the same way as is excused by patriachal religions, and greedy ego driven capitalistic systems.

For many decades, women of many ages, ethnicities, and backgrounds have vocally objected to the destruction of the very ecosystems upon which we all depend.

Greta is just one of millions, but she caught the headlines.. No bad thing necessarily, as she has invigorated the youth in particular, but it's probably time to move on, I suspect she would agree.. But that's a media problem, not her problem.

The fact that we've to a large extent been ignored until this eleventh hour is probably more to do with the egos of those who would maintain the status quo, rather than anything to do with the message itself.

But it's definitely the case that many men do not wish to to listen to the words of women.

 

[matticus]

The old hypocrite thing doesn't stand scrutiny. It ends up being a justification for inaction and doesn't actually solve anything.

I completely agree!

But please bear in mind that The Honourable Gentleman above was accusing the Royals of hypocrisy - which was why I challenged him!

 

[Fab Foodie]

You think you're clean as the driven snow, on issues such as ... say, flying to meetings?

Nope. Never claimed I was. But neither am I proclamating on the world stage or in a position of global influence about what others haven't done....

I don't fly to meetings. I do fly (at my employers behest) to production trials in factories and attend product tastings both of which are difficult to do without being there. Having said that there are some circumstances where virtual tastings and trial can be done (which involves flying product samples instead) and in those cases we do them. I could choose not to do this of course and find another way to make a living...and then it would be somebody else on the plane instead. FWIW I have also pushed to be based in central Europe where driving and trains is an alternative - - company was not interested. However, the business does have increasingly positive eco-credentials and programs.

I have only ever flown for my own pleasure on about 6 occasions in 58 years.

I try where possible to shop local and buy local produce. I try to shop and travel by bike where practicable. I don't do Amazon or the like. We recycle and re-use
I own frugal lightweight cars (with the exception of the Campervan for holiday use at 32mpg)
We are reducing meat and dairy consumption at home for a more plant based diet.

We've just been to see a house to buy, in our budget is factored-in; increasing insulation, Air source heat pumps, Solar panels and a small electric car to replace one of our fossil burners.

It's work in progress, not perfect, but it's more than many...so that's what we're doing.
I'm sure Brenda could have a much better impact than I and am interested to hear her Net Zero ambitions for her estates....