Cut parents benefits over school truancy

[qigong chimp]

The sins of the poor are often not as easily hidden. 'Twas ever so. Peacock nailed it: https://www.poetrynook.com/poem/rich-and-poor-or-saint-and-sinner

Chesterton was there or thereabouts: http://home.iscte-iul.pt/~dmt/publ/en/Two_policemen.htm

 

[matticus]

What even IS crime, man? And who gets to decide?!?

 

[qigong chimp]

Michelle Mone stole 27,884 years of child benefit.

 

[icowden]

Very good, is there a point to all this ?
Can you spell out to me in simple terms what these last dozen or exchanges are about, am I at fault in your eyes for thinking there are people out there that commit crimes for example?

The point is that the difference between a council estate scumbag and a Prime Minister is smaller than you might imagine, and that where you are brought up is not as important as how you are brought up. One person is labelled as a scumbag, the other as a bit of a japester or a scallywag.

Am I at fault for believing that some even choose to commit those crimes because they want to and see it as an easy way to make a quick buck?

Nope. You would be entirely accurate. The next step is to consider why they see it as an easy way to make a quick buck over doing something legal. What other avenues do they have?

Am I mistaken in believing that in areas where there's a lot of poverty and hardship that more crimes against the locals will be higher than in more affluent areas?

Yes probably. The crime will be there but it will be different.

Am I mistaken in thinking that there's been crimes of this nature committed whichever government was in power, bearing in mind the yrs I'm specifically talking about were mid seventies to early eighties.

Again, not mistaken. However what we did see was a general reduction in petty crime once mental health funding had been put in place, because there is an intrinsic link between crime and mental health issues such as addiction.

If you read @barristersecret's books you will see that a lot of the people she deals with are people who have committed crime out of desperation and that fines or jail is not a useful way to deal with them. A lot of money could be saved by dealing with the causes of crime rather than punishing people after the fact.

 

[mudsticks]

No it doesn't, and you still can't bring yourself to answer.

Scenario, you and your fellow farmer types are in the local enjoying a hard earned drink after work.

In comes a friend who's had his/her/she/him/they/them/it/it's/pineapple/cucumber or whatever's farming equipment stolen from the barn, starts complaining about the *add expletive here* thieving *******'s that are responsible, what is your reaction?

a. Do you stop the rant and inform said complainant that they're all 'fellow humans' and shouldn't be described in this manner.
b. Explain that the current government is far worse and should be blamed for what's happened.
c. Agree that certain members of society are indeed *add chosen expletive* and deserve all they get.
d. None of the above.

My reaction would be d.

Definitely d.

Including enquiring "Whateveron earth were you doing with a pineapple gizmo in the first place.??"

- Balmy Devon may be but we're not totally tropical* just yet.

*Although i appreciate that viewed from the environs of Wolverhampton one could see how we might possess a certain 'exotic' allure

 

[Deleted member 28]

My reaction would be d.

Definitely d.

Including enquiring "Whateveron earth were you doing with a pineapple gizmo in the first place.??"

- Balmy Devon may be but we're not totally tropical* just yet.

*Although i appreciate that viewed from the environs of Wolverhampton one could see how we might possess a certain 'exotic' allure

I rest my case, full of sh1t.

 

[mudsticks]

I rest my case, full of sh1t.

Don't be so hard on yourself, you must have learned something in all your time spent hanging around here.

 

[Deleted member 28]

The point is that the difference between a council estate scumbag and a Prime Minister is smaller than you might imagine, and that where you are brought up is not as important as how you are brought up. One person is labelled as a scumbag, the other as a bit of a japester or a scallywag.


Nope. You would be entirely accurate. The next step is to consider why they see it as an easy way to make a quick buck over doing something legal. What other avenues do they have?


Yes probably. The crime will be there but it will be different.


Again, not mistaken. However what we did see was a general reduction in petty crime once mental health funding had been put in place, because there is an intrinsic link between crime and mental health issues such as addiction.

If you read @barristersecret's books you will see that a lot of the people she deals with are people who have committed crime out of desperation and that fines or jail is not a useful way to deal with them. A lot of money could be saved by dealing with the causes of crime rather than punishing people after the fact.

So the only difference between you and I is you 'care' why they're scumbags and I don't, I'm sure it'll never happen but I hope for your sake you never fall victim of scumbaggery and if you do it would be interesting to see how sympathetic you are then.

 

[mudsticks]

So the only difference between you and I is you 'care' why they're scumbags and I don't, I'm sure it'll never happen but I hope for your sake you never fall victim of scumbaggery and if you do it would be interesting to see how sympathetic you are then.

You honestly think none of us have been victims of crime, or aren't close to those who have suffered at the hands of others.??

Don't you think that might be why we want to see crime, and it's root causes tackled properly.??

Rather than just chucking around 'i don't care' and 'all those people over there are 'scumbags'.

How does that help anything?

 

[Deleted member 28]

You honestly think none of us have been victims of crime, or aren't close to those who have suffered at the hands of others.??

Don't you think that might be why we want to see crime, and it's root causes tackled properly.??

Rather than just chucking around 'i don't care' and 'all those people over there are 'scumbags'.

How does that help anything?

Once again you spout off about your 'goodnees ' yet refuse to answer my question, do you see these 'fellow humans ' as scumbags or not?

What about our 'fellow humans ' that abuse women, are they scumbags in your opinion or people who have had a poor start in life and deserve all the help and support from everyone else?

Do you inform the victims that I believe you support that their abusers are in fact the victims in all this and should be pitied?

And at the risk of repeating myself, although you continually do it, would you defend these people as much as you do on here if amongst friends that have had crimes committed against them?

Remember, you piled into all this when you questioned my use of the term scumbags.

 

[mudsticks]

Once again you spout off about your 'goodnees ' yet refuse to answer my question, do you see these 'fellow humans ' as scumbags or not?

What about our 'fellow humans ' that abuse women, are they scumbags in your opinion or people who have had a poor start in life and deserve all the help and support from everyone else?

Do you inform the victims that I believe you support that their abusers are in fact the victims in all this and should be pitied?

And at the risk of repeating myself, although you continually do it, would you defend these people as much as you do on here if amongst friends that have had crimes committed against them?

I've told you repeatedly that no I don't see people as 'scumbags' but for some reason you can't accept that answer.

Where am I defending people who abuse others?
You just made that up.

There's a whole thread on tackling the root causes of and poor attitudes around VAWAG
But you'd just deride that as women going on.

You're clearly not interested in anything like a grown up discussion or debate about tackling crime, you just want to chuck around insults and crass statements.

I can get that anywhere on the internet, I'll leave you to it.

 

[Deleted member 28]

I've told you repeatedly that no I don't see people as 'scumbags' but for some reason you can't accept that answer.

Where am I defending people who abuse others?
You just made that up.

There's a whole thread on tackling the root causes of and poor attitudes around VAWAG
But you'd just deride that as women going on.

You're clearly not interested in anything like a grown up discussion or debate about tackling crime, you just want to chuck around insults and crass statements.

I can get that anywhere on the internet, I'll leave you to it.

Nothing to say at all really then, thought as much.

 

[fozy tornip]

Once again you spout off about your 'goodnees ' yet refuse to answer my question, do you see these 'fellow humans ' as scumbags or not?

What about our 'fellow humans ' that abuse women, are they scumbags in your opinion or people who have had a poor start in life and deserve all the help and support from everyone else?

Do you inform the victims that I believe you support that their abusers are in fact the victims in all this and should be pitied?

And at the risk of repeating myself, although you continually do it, would you defend these people as much as you do on here if amongst friends that have had crimes committed against them?

Remember, you piled into all this when you questioned my use of the term scumbags.

Give it up shep: she doesn't even think of you as a scumbag. (subs please check. Ed.)
Perhaps time to rest your case full of shit someplace else?

 

[qigong chimp]

... there are people out there that commit crimes ...

You're working very hard to 'other' the capacity for evil.

"The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts, it oscillates with the years. And even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained."

― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956

 

[multitool]

Don't be so hard on yourself, you must have learned something in all your time spent hanging around here.

Osmosis is impossible when the substance has to pass through something exceptionally thick