Donald I, emperor of the world.

[monkers]

So she doesn't understand the concept of outliers?

She very much does, but she is illustrating her point. It is true that it is the case that the most demanding physical work is carried out by men. My friend is very lean, wiry, and fit. Her point is that therefore men are typically stronger in upper body strength because their work trains muscles, just as in her own case. She is well aware that her work contributes to her strength and fitness.

 

[monkers]

But the results of cycling races suggest that this is something than men are overall better at than women. How many cycling races of any kind are there where a woman holds the record?

The outlier here is obviously Beryl Burton. She worked doing manual work, was conscious about the role of diet in fitness and trained hard. Just doing this made her an outlier among women.

It's always been about opportunity. Only more recently have women had anything approaching the same or similar opportunities. GCN covered the Zwift racing challenge. In some activities the women were faster than the men.

When my other half went for a bike fit, they said to her ''you have a long femur ratio which is a big advantage''. I hadn't noticed her in that way before, but they are right, her upper leg is longer than mine, and her lower leg shorter. She rides with a local club and can match any of the men of similar age especially on hills.

 

[monkers]

That's one of the more contentious issues in this debate - the constant demand that everything must change to suit a small minority of people or else.

My friend made no demands. She just filled out the form correctly. Do you think that she is ''making demands'' by arguing that she should be able to race against other women?

 

[monkers]

Again, I'd argue that she fails to see the wider picture of vast unfairness to biological women if those who have been through male puberty are able to compete against them.

My friend would vigorously defend herself against this. She's pretty straight speaking I can tell you! It is not the case that trans women have campaigned for non-binary people to be treated this way. She states clearly that it is the sheer incompetence of the CTT who on one hand state that they've read the science comprehensively, and yet fail to understand any difference between biological sex and gender identity.

Try asking Aurora how she'd feel as a 'biological woman' without a sense of gender identity being excluded from the category of women - that'll be fun to watch!

 

[icowden]

''Under CTT rules are non-binary cisgender women required to race in the open class?''

What medical examinations take place to determine whether they are non-binary?

Is it "none"?

The guidance is that if people want to be transwomen, transmen, non-binary, furry, agender, cocopops or any other notion they have about gender, then they race in the open category. If they are a cisgender woman they are entitled to ride in the women's class. If they are uncomfortable about that and insist on filling the entry form out to make a point then they don't. They go in the special group. If they wish to be included with all the other women, they can be. If they don't there is a special group where they don't have to be.

As I said, this is entirely self-imposed by her.

 

[icowden]

My friend made no demands. She just filled out the form correctly. Do you think that she is ''making demands'' by arguing that she should be able to race against other women?

No. She can. She just fills out the form and doesn't put "non-binary" because that isn't relevant to her entering a women's race as a woman. Simple.

 

[icowden]

My friend would vigorously defend herself against this. She's pretty straight speaking I can tell you! It is not the case that trans women have campaigned for non-binary people to be treated this way. She states clearly that it is the sheer incompetence of the CTT who on one hand state that they've read the science comprehensively, and yet fail to understand any difference between biological sex and gender identity.

That's a fair point. What they have tried to do is to create an open category for people who don't want to race against men, but shouldn't be racing against women. Anyone can choose to be in that category. Any biological woman can race in the women's category. Any biological man in the men's category.

She is a biological woman, thus she can race in the women's category and just leave whatever gender identity she feels she is out of the equation. It just isn't relevant.

 

[monkers]

What medical examinations take place to determine whether they are non-binary?

Is it "none"?

The guidance is that if people want to be transwomen, transmen, non-binary, furry, agender, cocopops or any other notion they have about gender, then they race in the open category. If they are a cisgender woman they are entitled to ride in the women's class. If they are uncomfortable about that and insist on filling the entry form out to make a point then they don't. They go in the special group. If they wish to be included with all the other women, they can be. If they don't there is a special group where they don't have to be.

As I said, this is entirely self-imposed by her.

She declared herself thus in her appeal against their decision; sex assigned at birth = female; biological sex = female; sexual identity = female; innate gender identity = none therefore non-binary.

CCT say that non-binary means ''a person who asserts they are neither male or female''.

She put 'non-binary' on her original application form before the CCT introduced their policy. Now they say she can't change her stated gender identity of non-binary on her records. The table of their definitions appears on their website. I can't copy the table but the contents look like this:

Affirmed Gender Policy applies to
Male - A transgender male (female to male) - May compete in the Open Category.
Female - A transgender female (male to female) - Must compete in the Open Category
Non-binary - A person who asserts they are neither male nor female - Must compete in the Open Category

The tribunal panel ruled that she must ride in the open category because they define 'male' and 'female' as gender identities rather than the sexes of reproductive function.

Non-binary is not an affirmed gender as the CCT claim. It can't be because it is not recognised as a gender in law. A person can not obtain a gender recognition certificate in the gender of non-binary.

It's a pity that your language is not just dismissive of gender identity in this context, but you invented some unnecessary shite such as ''cocopops''. Despite your attempts to sound moderate most of the time, you reveal your true colours sometimes. I think you can do better and should.

 

[CXRAndy]

She put 'non-binary' on her original application form before the CCT introduced their policy. Now they say she can't change her stated gender

More fool her. She should have put female, because that is what she is.

If she wants to go around claiming to be non binary, accept you will be placed in the open category

She has tripped herself up over the absurdity of trans ideology

 

[AndyRM]

I know you don't understand what being non-binary means, but it isn't the same as being trans.

HTH.

 

[CXRAndy]

I know you don't understand what being non-binary means, but it isn't the same as being trans.

HTH.

She grouped herself into a non biological category by being a silly bugger.

Just put down the sex you were born with, job done.

Or expect to be frolicking around with the furries 😁

 

[AndyRM]

Ah, so you don't know what a furry is either.

*Adds to the list*

 

[AuroraSaab]

If she doesn't believe in gender identity why does she claim to be non binary? Non binary refers to a gender identity, not to material reality.

The categories in sport relate to sex so a non binary person of the female sex is entitled to ride in the Womens category. She has chosen not to. The CTT rules are here:

https://legacy.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/articles/view/302

 

[AuroraSaab]

Try asking Aurora how she'd feel as a 'biological woman' without a sense of gender identity being excluded from the category of women - that'll be fun to watch!

Your friend has self excluded. If I was excluded from a category intended for biological women I would wonder why I was being excluded. If the category was based on gender identity alone, then it was a mixed sex category all along.

Funnily enough, women aren't bothered when they are excluded from events aimed at trans people - because it's OK for such groups to have stuff exclusively for them, just like women can.

 

[monkers]

If she doesn't believe in gender identity why does she claim to be non binary? Non binary refers to a gender identity, not to material reality.

The categories in sport relate to sex so a non binary person of the female sex is entitled to ride in the Womens category. She has chosen not to. The CTT rules are here:

https://legacy.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/articles/view/302

View attachment 7531

You've literally made thousands of posts saying that gender identity is an ideology, and claimed that it doesn't exist because you have no sense of it. You say that the terms 'female' and 'woman' both pertain to sex. You call trans women ''male bodied''. You use the words 'male' and 'female' to distinguish between the two reproductive sexes, and say there are only two manifestations. You've said this ad nauseum

You've argued endlessly that ''biological sex is binary and immutable'', and now you are here taking the position that 'non-binary' means not being male or female, but sexless. You are saying that my friend, the mother of three children is not male or female. I'm astonished.

I used to say that you are like the colour-blind person who says that as they can not see colour that colour simply can not exist.

I was wrong, it's worse than that.