Gender again. Sorry!

[classic33]

I don't like laws that allow men to self ID as women, regardless of the country. I am entitled to campaign against such laws just as much as you are allowed to, and do, advocate in their favour.

If we 'stuck to the law' and didn't try to change things GB women wouldn't have the vote and the US would still have racial segregation.

It's not self ID as you make out. There's a two year period before the GRC is issued by the court, where they give up being female/male and have to live as the gender they may be.
Female to male still outnumber male to female in terms of Gender Recognition Certificates issued in Ireland.

If we stuck to the law, disabled people would still be disallowed in certain areas. Purely to avoid offence to normal people.

If you're talking about your favourite terrorist leader, Pankhurst, who believed in "to the ballot box by the bomb" or as her movements motto put it "Deeds Not Words" then you've chosen a fine example.

 

[AuroraSaab]

It's in the link in blue in the article. It was actually a man who ended up in the icu, my mistake.

It's not self ID as you make out. There's a two year period before the GRC is issued by the court, where they give up being female/male and have to live as the gender they may be.

In Ireland? It's a straightforward filling in of a form. The 2 year wait in England and Wales is one of the things transactivists have campaigned against btw. What does 'living as a woman' mean? What does 'living as a man' mean?

Female to male still outnumber male to female in terms of Gender Recognition Certificates issued in Ireland.

Funny how you never hear of them being up in court for sex or violent offences at the same ratio as transwomen. Almost as if women retain a female pattern of offending and men retain a male pattern, despite transitioning.

If we stuck to the law, disabled people would still be disallowed in certain areas. Purely to avoid offence to normal people.

Yes, some laws are wrong and need to be changed. You want people to accept the ones you do like though, even if they don't.

If you're talking about your favourite terrorist leader, Pankhurst, who believed in "to the ballot box by the bomb" or as her movements motto put it "Deeds Not Words" then you've chosen a fine example.

I think the firebombing strategy was a mistake as it happens, but you can't seriously be saying women shouldn't have tried to change the voting laws because we should just accept any law once it's made.

 

[classic33]

It's in the link in blue in the article. It was actually a man who ended up in the icu, my mistake.

As you've pointed out it's not in that link. It's actually in a link within that link. Arrested, and charged as a man for that offence. And it wasn't as you first said putting anyone in a coma. How about sticking to not inventing stories?

In Ireland? It's a straightforward filling in of a form. The 2 year wait in England and Wales is one of the things transactivists have campaigned against btw. What does 'living as a woman' mean? What does 'living as a man' mean?

T'ain't.
A person wishing to transition, has to prove to a court judge, upon application that they intend to transition. Returning two years later for possible issuing of the Gender Recognition Certificate. It's not as simple as you make out.

Funny how you never hear of them being up in court for sex or violent offences at the same ratio as transwomen. Almost as if women retain a female pattern of offending and men retain a male pattern, despite transitioning.

Maybe the majority of them are just getting on with everyday life. So they don't come to media attention as much as a trans women. Where it's almost guaranteed a headline that'll grab people. You'll have noticed the Sunday World headline doesn't make use of trans woman in their reporting. They stuck to the facts as presented in court.
Maybe it shows that men are more accepting of trans men than you try and make out.
Funny how you dug up stories about two of them, in prison then. One who'd entered the country illegally, and was involved in the drug trade.
The second for an assault on another women.
You claimed that the fact that they were "trans prisoners" meant they were trans women. You were wrong on that part, what else were you wrong on?

Yes, some laws are wrong and need to be changed. You want people to accept the ones you do like though, even if they don't.

Why don't you accept the law that says a person can become a person of another gender?

I think the firebombing strategy was a mistake as it happens, but you can't seriously be saying women shouldn't have tried to change the voting laws because we should just accept any law once it's made.

It wasn't just a firebombing campaign. Take into account her assassination attempts, and the invention of the letterbomb by her movement. She, Pankhurst, fled the country to avoid justice. Is that what you claim as fair and equal treatment?
Then you've got the White Feather Movement, she helped found. A rule of which was that you never gave one to anyone in your own family. Nor anyone in your own social class.
Selective to say the least.

 

[AuroraSaab]

As you've pointed out it's not in that link. It's actually in a link within that link. Arrested, and charged as a man for that offence. And it wasn't as you first said putting anyone in a coma. How about sticking to not inventing stories?

How about not being pedantic over the links in an article in order to pretend that this was anything other than male violence?

T'ain't. A person wishing to transition, has to prove to a court judge, upon application that they intend to transition. Returning two years later for possible issuing of the Gender Recognition Certificate. It's not as simple as you make out.

Not in Ireland. It used to be. Now it isn't.
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth-family-relationships/legal-recognition-of-preferred-gender/#:~:text=Anyone over 18 can apply,is recognised by the State.

Maybe the majority of them are just getting on with everyday life. So they don't come to media attention as much as a trans women. Where it's almost guaranteed a headline that'll grab people. You'll have noticed the Sunday World headline doesn't make use of trans woman in their reporting. They stuck to the facts as presented in court. Maybe it shows that men are more accepting of trans men than you try and make out.

Maybe it shows that men have more of a propensity for violence than women do, regardless of changing their gender.

Why don't you accept the law that says a person can become a person of another gender?

Because the implications of such laws are detrimental to women and girls. Such as a violent man being placed in a women's homeless hostel and in a women's prison.

It wasn't just a firebombing campaign. Take into account her assassination attempts, and the invention of the letterbomb by her movement. She, Pankhurst, fled the country to avoid justice. Is that what you claim as fair and equal treatment?
Then you've got the White Feather Movement, she helped found. A rule of which was that you never gave one to anyone in your own family. Nor anyone in your own social class. Selective to say the least.

Only you could slag off Emeline Pankhust and defend a violent transwoman being housed with women all in one post. Classic Classic.

 

[AndyRM]

Since we're here, the two year criteria for living as a woman or a man is an incredibly difficult and nebulous thing to do. I've witnessed it first hand on more than one occasion.

I wasn't aware of trans-activists campaigning against it to be honest, but I could understand why they have.

 

[monkers]

Work and schools aren't particularly places of male violence or abuse on women because they are mostly open and women aren't isolated or vulnerable in them. You know this obviously.

We do know male violence and abuse happens more at home because that is where there are more opportunities. What you seek to do is create even more opportunities.

Nobody thinks 11 year old boys are all rapists but you'd be the first complaining if schools said all Year 7 kids had to get changed for swimming together.

So no reason at all then to bang on about trans people.

You seek privileges for a few special males who are magically different from all the others.

The usual old bollocks again.

I'm not seeking anything. Trans women with a GRC already have rights - it's just you pretending that they don't. Now that's the 'magical thinking' that you keep cracking on about.

 

[classic33]

How about not being pedantic over the links in an article in order to pretend that this was anything other than male violence?

You're the one who made that claim and another two, all of which were incorrect. You corrected one only though.

Not in Ireland. It used to be. Now it isn't.
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth-family-relationships/legal-recognition-of-preferred-gender/#:~:text=Anyone over 18 can apply,is recognised by the State.

Read the links. It's not changed since 2015.

Maybe it shows that men have more of a propensity for violence than women do, regardless of changing their gender.

Or that those women who chose to become a trans man, don't get used to incite hatred. After all if you are serious on the "safety of women and girls" why do you not condemn women who are violent to other women and girls?

Because the implications of such laws are detrimental to women and girls. Such as a violent man being placed in a women's homeless hostel and in a women's prison.

In the case you stated, she is legally a women. Recognised by the state, and just as important the hostel she was living in.
If being locked in your prison cell for twenty three hours out of twenty four, with no contact with other prisoners, represents a danger to other prisoners, will you explain how?

Only you could slag off Emeline Pankhust and defend a violent transwoman being housed with women all in one post. Classic Classic.

In the words of Christabel Pankhurst “If men use explosives and bombs for their own purpose, they call it war, and that the throwing of a bomb that destroys other people is then described as a glorious and heroic deed. Why should a woman not make use of the same weapons as men? It is not only war we have declared, we are fighting a revolution”.

Said as means of backing up their campaign, which did include chemical attacks, without worrying who else would get hurt/killed along with their target.

 

[AuroraSaab]

So no reason at all then to bang on about trans people.

There is when you seek to pretend being a trans person means normal safeguarding should be abandoned.

The usual old bollocks again. I'm not seeking anything. Trans women with a GRC already have rights - it's just you pretending that they don't. Now that's the 'magical thinking' that you keep cracking on about.

And the EA advice has made clear that even with a GRC someone can be excluded when the circumstances are legitimate. It's things like this that you constantly seek to undermine.

Why do you not condemn women who are violent to other women and girls?

I condemn it. There are far fewer of them than men though.

If being locked in your prison cell for twenty three hours out of twenty four, with no contact with other prisoners, represents a danger to other prisoners, will you explain how?

No contact because they are so dangerous.

In the words of Christabel Pankhurst “If men use explosives and bombs for their own purpose, they call it war, and that the throwing of a bomb that destroys other people is then described as a glorious and heroic deed. Why should a woman not make use of the same weapons as men? It is not only war we have declared, we are fighting a revolution”.

Said as means of backing up their campaign, which did include chemical attacks, without worrying who else would get hurt/killed along with their target.

Again, here you are, moaning about extreme measures taken against female oppression when 50% of the population didn't have any representation in government, but supporting female oppression by putting violent men in women's hostels and jails.

 

[classic33]

I condemn it. There are far fewer of them than men though.

Not on here yo haven't!
You've answered with sarcastic replies when such cases have been mentioned.

No contact because they are so dangerous.

And you know that to be fact, or are you just assuming that a serial shoplifter is such a danger to other women that she requires locking up for 23 hours a day.
Contrast that with a female multiple murderer, who was given the key to her own cell, to come and go as she pleased.

Again, here you are, moaning about extreme measures taken against female oppression when 50% of the population didn't have any representation in government, but supporting female oppression by putting violent men in women's hostels and jails.

And here you are again, defending the use of the bomb in terrorist action. At a time when many men, who never had the vote either, were dying on the battlefield. When those who did return, many were still without the vote.

Here you are, defending your favourite terrorist yet again.

 

[multitool]

Work and schools aren't particularly places of male violence or abuse on women because they are mostly open and women aren't isolated or vulnerable in them. You know this obviously.

Absolute bollocks. Schools have been surveyed and at any point almost two thirds of girls are saying they have suffered some sort of sexual assault within the previous 12 months. It's rife.

The data is available on government sites.

It's rife in workplaces too

I love how you just handwave away a huge amount of assaults by males on females because it doesn't fit in with your obsession with trans women as potential predators.

We do know male violence and abuse happens more at home because that is where there are more opportunities. What you seek to do is create even more opportunities.

90% of it happens at home.
Of the remaining 10%, how many are carried out by TW? It's not even 1%. It's insignificant statistically.

And yet you spend all day arguing about it. Why aren't you arguing for action in the home, schools and workplaces.

Nobody thinks 11 year old boys are all rapists but you'd be the first complaining if schools said all Year 7 kids had to get changed for swimming together.

I'm showing you the utter inconsistency of your argument. You should be arguing for segregated schools, work places and homes

You are on the ropes again, and you know it.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Not on here yo haven't!
You've answered with sarcastic replies when such cases have been mentioned.

And you know that to be fact, or are you just assuming that a serial shoplifter is such a danger to other women that she requires locking up for 23 hours a day.
Contrast that with a female multiple murderer, who was given the key to her own cell, to come and go as she pleased.

And here you are again, defending the use of the bomb in terrorist action. At a time when many men, who never had the vote either, were dying on the battlefield. When those who did return, many were still without the vote.

Here you are, defending your favourite terrorist yet again.

Men comit almost all sexual offences and nearly all violent crime. Bringing up the unique circumstances of the suffragettes from 120 years ago doesn't change that.

Absolute bollocks. Schools have been surveyed and at any point almost two thirds of girls are saying they have suffered some sort of sexual assault within the previous 12 months. It's rife.

Who's doing the sexual assaulting?
Males.

The data is available on government sites.
It's rife in workplaces too

Who's doing most of the sexual assaulting in the workplace? Males.

I love how you just handwave away a huge amount of assaults by males on females because it doesn't fit in with your obsession with trans women (THEY ARE MALES) as potential predators.

You acknowledge that men are the problem then insist transwomen aren't men. It's laughable. They are men just like other men.

90% of it happens at home.
Of the remaining 10%, how many are carried out by TW? It's not even 1%. It's insignificant statistically.

Transwomen are men, just like other men.
You are yet to prove they are magically different from other men. Crime stats say they aren't

And yet you spend all day arguing about it. Why aren't you arguing for action in the home, schools and workplaces.

Do you think the same feminists who advocate for single sex spaces aren't also campaigning on all those other issues? They are, you're just not interested enough in women's issues to have heard of them. That's your ignorance at play, not their lack of action.

I'm showing you the utter inconsistency of your argument. You should be arguing for segregated schools, work places and homes

You are on the ropes again, and you know it.

You've make yourself look stupid. You've fully admitted today that it's a male violence issue, and that it remains a male violence issue regardless of location. Now you have to insist that we pretend some men are different from other men in order to give some men a free pass. It's completely illogical.

 

[AndyRM]

Bringing "magic" into the debate is quite something.

 

[classic33]

Men comit almost all sexual offences and nearly all violent crime. Bringing up the unique circumstances of the suffragettes from 120 years ago doesn't change that.

I'll remind you that it was yourself that brought their activities in to bolster your argument. It's yourself that keeps harping on about how a terrorist group got women the vote.
They were a recognised terrorist group and they didn't get women the vote.
You can't rewrite history to suit yourself.

Who's doing the sexual assaulting?
Males.

Again, Viki Bevan!
Does the fact that your a woman mean you're as likely to do what she did?

Who's doing most of the sexual assaulting in the workplace? Males.

I worked in one place where it was the women doing the assaulting.
Stripping the new lads completely, before covering their entire body in a mix of swarf and Swarfega, before finally wrapping them in pallet wrap, securing to the forks on a forklift and driving it outside.

 

[multitool]

You've make yourself look stupid. You've fully admitted today that it's a male violence issue, and that it remains a male violence issue regardless of location. Now you have to insist that we pretend some men are different from other men in order to give some men a free pass. It's completely illogical.

No, nowhere have I said that male violence is not male violence. Don't lie (again)

Nor have I said that TW are not biologically male. Your problem is that you can't see beyond your own rhetoric and I'm showing you tge huge inconsistency in your argument.

You've just tried to pretend that there is no problem with sexual assaults and harassment in schools. It's so ignorant it's almost funny. Ditto workplace. You are ignoring the HUGE MAJORITY of issues and focusing on something largely insignificant.

People don't get attacked in toilets and refuges. And it isn't because males don't have access because they do.

It's your silly little hobby horse. Most women don't share your obsession (and we know because they've told us). They aren't worried about Trans women in toilets ffs, because they know it isn't a real issue because they live female lives every day.

So do you. And when I challenged you months ago as to whether you or anybody you know IRL has been harassed by a TW you suddenly went quiet and changed the subject.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Bringing "magic" into the debate is quite something.

It requires magical thinking to believe that a man is a woman or vice versa just because they say so.

You've just tried to pretend that there is no problem with sexual assaults and harassment in schools.

I haven't. I've pointed out that it's almost exclusively a male abuse of females problem.
You don't seem to think this is relevant.

It's so ignorant it's almost funny. Ditto workplace. You are ignoring the HUGE MAJORITY of issues and focusing on something largely insignificant.

The issue, again, is mostly male abuse of females.

People don't get attacked in toilets and refuges. And it isn't because males don't have access because they do.

They don't have access, not to most toilets and not to many refuges.
It's absolutely ridiculous to suggest that women aren't protected by having single sex spaces. We know what happens when they don't. It's why they were created in the first place.

It's your silly little hobby horse. Most women don't share your obsession (and we know because they've told us). They aren't worried about Trans women in toilets ffs, because they know it isn't a real issue because they live female lives every day.

Are we back to your single bog survey then? Other surveys say very differently.

So do you. And when I challenged you months ago as to whether you or anybody you know IRL has been harassed by a TW you suddenly went quiet and changed the subject.

I think I said what will say again now. I can list the examples from my own experience of how allowing men access to single sex spaces has been detrimental but anecdotes are anecdotes and you wouldn't accept them any more than I would accept yours. Secondly we don't make laws based on a few people's anecdotal experience.

Today you've listed all the ways and places women and girls are abused or harassed by men. You've admitted it's a men problem but still insist there's a little subset of men to whom the facts of male violence mustn't be applied. It's absolutely ridiculous.