Gender again. Sorry!

[monkers]

It is simply a matter of fact that the churches were one of the few places you could go to get away from Nazi ideology. Wherever Catholics were a majority Hitler never achieved a majority vote - max 40 %.

If you thought something harmful wouldn't you want to warn someone about it? The high suicide rate, let alone traumatised detransitioners (which at the time I knew little about).

I mean the western countries that have gone back on hormone treatments and surgery, especially for teenagers, as AS noted.

The closure of Tavistock.

Also countries not following Canada or Australia where parents' wishes can be overruled by the state. Ruinous fines or imprisonment imposed.

I will assume you do not claim to be omniscient, can you prove a material universe is all there is?

The C of E's first transgender priest Bingo Allison quoted Genesis "male and female he created them". He (not they) said just as night and day includes dusk, so gender can be considered a continuum.

There is truth in that, so in that regard I'm not absolutist.

That said night and day, truth and error are separate categories that cannot be combined. In the same way you are either male or female, these are permanent categories and you can no more be a mixture of the two than you could be partly pregnant. In that sense I am absolutist because I see that as the truth.

Allison entered into a covenant of marriage with his wife, and has children, so he had no right to go down the transgender route, it's too late. All the more so in the sight of the God whom he is supposed to believe in.

It would be nice if you Christian folk could even tell your own story with truth, but you can't. Now Christians believe they can misrepresent everyone else's truth too.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

You probably want to pop round the country and tell all the people that attended vigils that they were trolling.

There's only one person I called a troll. And there you go, the troll tries to twist my words to imply I was calling a whole group of people trolls.
Anyhow trying to converse with trolls is pointless, so from now on I'll be giving this one as much attention as I give to icowden's invisible friend.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Most of my input in this thread has been about the likely outcome of vilifying a vulnerable minority group,

You've spent the thread vilifying anybody who wants to protect the rights of women to single sex spaces by calling them fascists.

...probably because they have to live the abuse, unlike you who just sits smugly and cowardly in his house typing away at zero cost to himself.

Yet you feel every right to give away women's rights .... and it costs you absolutely nothing.

I'm not gloating. I'm sickened. And I think that people like you are contributing to the environment that makes events like this happen.

You've spent the thread calling women fascists and Nazis. Yesterday you called author Lionel Shriver a 'fascist harpy'. Yet you've dismissed examples of violent and aggressive action from transactivists as one-off incidents. So it seems you, or them, aren't contributing to an environment of hate with your own language, but discussing single sex spaces is.

Sure, we can wait for the outcome of the trial. But in the meantime, stop spreading hate. Your contribution might be minimal, but it is still a contribution.

Well we could wait. We could do as the police asked right from the word go and not comment on the case at all. But there was no point scoring to be had in doing that. You could likewise stop spreading hate of women standing up for their rights - that's been your contribution.

You are the epitome of 'pot, kettle, black' and the way you've seized on this awful event does you no credit at all.

 

[multitool]

You are so dishonest, Aurora, its almost laughable.

You've spent weeks trying to associate trans people with predators. That type of rhetoric has led to people openly referring to trans women as "paedophiles" and "rapists", online and in the street.

Own it.

 

[AuroraSaab]

It's men who are predators. It's men who make women uncomfortable in single sex spaces. And it's an overwhelming statistical fact that men commit crime of a sexual nature far, far more than women. Not all men, of course, but enough of them for it to be a big problem, and enough of them to make us uncomfortable around men in certain circumstances.

It's men who are the issue. Men. Regardless of whether they want to be men or don't want to be men. Regardless of whether they identify as men or don't identify as men. Regardless of whether they dress as a stereotypical man, or dress in stereotypical women's clothes.

Nothing magical happens when you say 'I'm a woman' to change that.

We all have partners, sons, brothers who are lovely, who we would trust in any circumstances. I don't think that means they should be allowed in women's changing rooms or women's prisons. Neither do they.

What you want is a free pass for certain kinds of men. You think that somehow all the feelings of discomfort and safeguarding that apply when a man is in women's single sex spaces shouldn't apply to these men. You seek to privilege a particular group of men over other men, and over the feelings and rights of women.

You'd rather accuse people of equating transwomen with sex offenders than face up to the fact that some men aren't genuinely suffering from body dysphoria. Because if you admit that some abusers are just pretending to be trans then the whole 'You are who you say you are' house of cards falls down.

And the only way you can stop women from telling you this, and telling you they won't accept this assault on their rights, is by calling them fascists and Nazis.

 

[monkers]

It's men who are predators. It's men who make women uncomfortable in single sex spaces. And it's an overwhelming statistical fact that men commit crime of a sexual nature far, far more than women. Not all men, of course, but enough of them for it to be a big problem, and enough of them to make us uncomfortable around men in certain circumstances.

It's men who are the issue. Men. Regardless of whether they want to be men or don't want to be men. Regardless of whether they identify as men or don't identify as men. Regardless of whether they dress as a stereotypical man, or dress in stereotypical women's clothes.

Nothing magical happens when you say 'I'm a woman' to change that.

We all have partners, sons, brothers who are lovely, who we would trust in any circumstances. I don't think that means they should be allowed in women's changing rooms or women's prisons. Neither do they.

What you want is a free pass for certain kinds of men. You think that somehow all the feelings of discomfort and safeguarding that apply when a man is in women's single sex spaces shouldn't apply to these men. You seek to privilege a particular group of men over other men, and over the feelings and rights of women.

And the only way you can stop women from telling you they won't accept this assault on their rights is by calling them fascists and Nazis.

wow. You've made more comebacks than Frank Sinatra! How many times is it that you repeated all this? How many times have you claimed to be leaving the thread? How many times have you claimed not to be an absolutist? You can't spend all this time at a computer with banks of cherry-picked misinformation without a huge investment in your time. It seems to me that you are devoting a life to campaigning against the lives of others - such a waste.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I've never claimed to be leaving this thread. That was you actually, several times. I've said I would be happy for the thread to go dormant because we are just going over the same stuff. We are.

For somebody who left Cycle Chat altogether and then joined NACA simply to take part in this thread, your comments are a bit strange.

I'll spend my time how I wish thanks, but the fact that you try to spin standing up for women's rights as 'campaigning against the lives of others' is just the standard hyperbole I've come to expect. I give it as much credence as I give your equating women's feminist campaigning with fascists and 1930's Nazi Germany.

 

[Bromptonaut]

You've spent the thread vilifying anybody who wants to protect the rights of women to single sex spaces by calling them fascists.

Yet you feel every right to give away women's rights .... and it costs you absolutely nothing.

You can protect women's rights to single sex spaces without treating every trans women, even those who've gone the distance with 'bottom surgery', as though they are a threat those born female. I'm not pointing the finger at you personally for this but some of your fellow travelers have aims and views way beyond those you have expounded on this thread.

I have several women to whom I'm closely related and many more amongst my friends etc. who should be safe in changing spaces etc.

Protection can be acheived, as it is now, by normal risk assessment and mitigations for those risks that are significant.

 

[monkers]

I've never claimed to be leaving this thread. That was you actually, several times. I've said I would be happy for the thread to go dormant because we are just going over the same stuff. We are.

For somebody who left Cycle Chat altogether and then joined NACA simply to take part in this thread, your comments are a bit strange.

I'll spend my time how I wish thanks, but the fact that you try to spin standing up for women's rights as 'campaigning against the lives of others' is just the standard hyperbole I've come to expect. I give it as much credence as I give your equating women's feminist campaigning with fascists and 1930's Nazi Germany.

I just happen to think that you're an alarmist. Trans people have had zero negative impact on my life, or of any other woman I know. I did no such thing as 'equating' with fascists and Nazis, but after it was said that I had, I played it, when really all that needed to happen was people needed to read and comprehend. Comparing one factor of one regime with one factor of another and saying they are 'like', is not 'equating' unless of course you are so desperate to 'win' an argument of your own making rather than participate in a discussion.

It pisses me off that you lie so much! That's what makes you such a sore loser.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I agree to some extent. It worked for years that women accepted transwomen in spaces like toilets because there were very few of them and there was an unwritten understanding that this small number of individuals were genuinely suffering from dysphoria. Even if it made women uncomfortable there was a willingness to accommodate this group.

This was before transactivism took hold and started demanding that anybody could be a woman and all single sex provision had to be open to anyone who simply said they were a woman, whether it was sports, prisons, or rape crisis centres.

The fact is that that social contract of mutual understanding has now been lost so it's not surprising that many women are reluctant to make the accommodations that they were previously.

 

[monkers]

I agree to some extent. It worked for years that women accepted transwomen in spaces like toilets because there were very few of them and there was an unwritten understanding that this small number of individuals were genuinely suffering from dysphoria. Even if it made women uncomfortable there was a willingness to accommodate this group.

This was before transactivism took hold and started demanding that anybody could be a woman and all single sex provision had to be open to anyone who simply said they were a woman, whether it was sports, prisons, or rape crisis centres.

The fact is that that social contract of mutual understanding has now been lost so it's not surprising that many women are reluctant to make the accommodations that they were previously.

You don't half chat some nonsense. It wasn't trans-activism - it was the legislation back in 2004. It was Theresa May who accepted the proposals of the Select Committee and promised to pass them into legislation. When Sturgeon did something similar, her opponents branded her a lefty loony.

Just try telling the truth.


Like I said, you just can't stop yourself from telling lies.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Trans people have had zero negative impact on my life, or of any other woman I know.

It pisses me off that you lie so much! That's what makes you such a sore loser.

'It doesn't matter to me so it shouldn't matter to anyone'. You take an inordinate amount of interest in a subject you claim doesn't affect you.

You are the most disingenuous person on this thread by a country mile.

 

[monkers]

'It doesn't matter to me so it shouldn't matter to anyone'. You take an inordinate amount of interest in a subject you claim doesn't affect you.

You are the most disingenuous person on this thread by a country mile.

I declared my interest very clearly. You have declared no personal interest, but pedalling misinformation. Which organisation are you campaigning for? WPUK? LGB Alliance?

 

[AuroraSaab]

You don't half chat some nonsense. It wasn't trans-activism - it was the legislation back in 2004.

No, it was from 2015 ish in the UK after gay marriage was legislated and Stonewall had to look for something else to generate cash because most people were now accepting of the gay community.There were people like Stephen Whittle beavering away in the background for years trying to get stuff done secretly under the radar but transactivism didn't take off in the public eye until Stonewall started pushing it.

Just try telling the truth.
Like I said, you just can't stop yourself from telling lies.

The fascist/Nazi line isn't working and the repetitive calling me a liar won't either.

 

[monkers]

No, it was from 2015 ish in the UK after gay marriage was legislated and Stonewall had to look for something else to generate cash because most people were now accepting of the gay community.There were people like Stephen Whittle beavering away in the background for years trying to get stuff done secretly under the radar but transactivism didn't take off in the public eye until Stonewall started pushing it.




The fascist/Nazi line isn't working and the repetitive calling me a liar won't either.

Conspiracy theory on stilts and steroids. You've allowed yourself to be recruited.