Gender again. Sorry!

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icowden

Squire
Ahh, our old friend the unevidenced 'several' again.
Can you link us to a couple of cases where it's actually been reported and preferably investigated.
If you like. Here are a few from the top of Google. Information sources vary in quality.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/03/16/tran...y-assaulted-girl-10-morrisons-toilet-8914577/
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1738250/sex-attack-female-toilet-gender-birmingham
https://www.kxii.com/content/news/T...ually-assaults-teen-in-walmart-505820451.html
https://www.foxnews.com/media/oklah...ulting-female-high-school-classmates-bathroom

It has happened but for balance there have also been attacks on transwomen in toilets. It turns out that they are not in fact magic.
 

icowden

Squire
People like AS have to define a threat into existence because that threat doesn't actually exist.
Thank you mystic mogg.

You could equally say that people like MT have to define a threat into non-existance because that threat does exist.

Surely the right answer is that we should explore what the threat is, assess it for risk and determine whether safeguards should be put in place.
I think that that is all that is being asked for.
 
That cartoon depicts icow and AS's panic-mongering that self-ID will lead to men, who fully resemble men, exposing their genitalia to women in women's spaces and anybody complaining will be prosecuted for discriminatory behaviour.
It doesn't matter what they look like.

The cartoon suggests prosecution. I've never said it. What I have said is that self ID means an end to single sex spaces: changing rooms, rape crisis centres, sports for women, intimate care provision, refuges, prisons, hospitals wards. Because under self ID women will no longer be able to ask for a male bodied person to be removed, whether a transwoman or other male.
Firstly, and most importantly, that possibility that men would do this would already be in evidence in the 40 countries with Self ID, and we'd know all about it from AS. The fact that she is silent on this should tell you something.
It's in evidence. I have posted plenty of stuff about jails and sports but you pretend it isn't happening. And when you acknowledge it's happening it doesn't matter because it's not frequently enough for you, or in say sports transwomen don't win every single competition they enter.

Secondly, there is an assumption that there is a law in place that would lead to the woman being prosecuted, and that the law is so inflexible that it would not allow for the possibility of indecent exposure.

There are plenty of laws that deal with stuff after it has happened. But that doesn't mean we do away with the regulations that help prevent them.

You can be prosecuted for stabbing someone with a knife. We still have regulations about selling knives to under 21 year old in order to minimise risk.

What you really want is every women's space to be open to men. You refuse to explain what it is about transwomen that means we should treat them differently than other men.
 

multitool

Pharaoh

You are now arguing against yourself, because look at what happened to the offenders. They got charged...not the victims.

Maybe the twats read some of you and AS's posts and believed them LOL
 
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Your comment, #3937 was specifically about transwomen in the UK. The first might plausibly fit that description. The second is in the UK but a man who subsequently claimed he was trans. The third and fourth are over the pond.
 
Because bigotry. Occams razor.

People like AS have to define a threat into existence because that threat doesn't actually exist.

The threat from males exists. It's for you to show why we should treat transwomen any differently from other men. What magically makes them different that allows them to go where other men can't? What magically means women who feel uncomfortable undressing in the presence of men shouldn't feel the same around transwomen?
 

multitool

Pharaoh
What you really want is every women's space to be open to men. You refuse to explain what it is about transwomen that means we should treat them differently than other men.

The law balances risks.

Until such time as you can, in any statistically relevant way (and screenshots of the same 6 year old local news headline in Oklahoma does not count as this) that the risk you perceive translates into reality then you really should pipe down* because your efforts are collectively making things worse for everybody...women, TW, everyone.

There are literally 40+ control experiments all around the world proving you wrong, every day, and it isn't theoretical/ideological like your arguments, it's reality.

*and I know full well I'm setting you up to go for your standard crap retort of silencing women.
 

multitool

Pharaoh
The threat from males exists. It's for you to show why we should treat transwomen any differently from other men. What magically makes them different that allows them to go where other men can't? What magically means women who feel uncomfortable undressing in the presence of men shouldn't feel the same around transwomen?

YOUVE LITERALLY GOT 40+ CONTROL EXPERIMENTS ROUND THE WORLD DISPROVING YOUR IDEOLOGICALLY DRIVEN VIEW.
 

icowden

Squire
Your comment, #3937 was specifically about transwomen in the UK.
No it wasn't:-
several attacks on women in toilets by transwomen in the UK and around the world.

The first might plausibly fit that description. The second is in the UK but a man who subsequently claimed he was trans. The third and fourth are over the pond.
Yes this meets the criteria of several attacks on women in toilets by transwomen in the UK and around the world.

I gave you 4 examples, 2 in the UK and 2 from the USA. If, in the second example from the UK, the perpetrator stated that she was a woman, isn't that sufficient for self-ID to apply to her? I thought that that was one of the clear tenets in play? Can we be sure that just because they look like a man and have a penis and ballsack that they are not in fact a woman?

Or is this one of those grey areas that really should be looked into to make sure that sufficient safeguards are in place to protect women and indeed genuine transwomen?
 

icowden

Squire
You are now arguing against yourself, because look at what happened to the offenders. They got charged...not the victims.
No, that's literally what I stated when reviewing the cartoon. That in any scenario it does tend to be the perpetrators that get charged.
There is an interesting US case where a transwoman has been trying to get a woman with Down's Syndrome sacked because she tries to prevent her from using the women's bathroom (as far as the lady with Down's is concerned, dressing as a woman doesn't make you one, and she knows the person as a man first). This sets up an interesting clash of allowance for disability vs "distress" of a transwoman.
 

multitool

Pharaoh
No, that's literally what I stated when reviewing the cartoon. That in any scenario it does tend to be the perpetrators that get charged.
There is an interesting US case where a transwoman has been trying to get a woman with Down's Syndrome sacked because she tries to prevent her from using the women's bathroom (as far as the lady with Down's is concerned, dressing as a woman doesn't make you one, and she knows the person as a man first). This sets up an interesting clash of allowance for disability vs "distress" of a transwoman.

IN WHICH CASE THE CARTOON DOES NOT REPRESENT REALITY.

in caps, because wtf
 

icowden

Squire
IN WHICH CASE THE CARTOON DOES NOT REPRESENT REALITY.
Which is what I said? Have you lost your reading glasses? This is what I said:-
Because it's a cartoon meme? It's not actually real. In both cases the outcome would be as per the top. Her point is that there is an increased risk of the scenario in the first place.
I draw your attention to the words in bold.
 

multitool

Pharaoh
Which is what I said? Have you lost your reading glasses? This is what I said:-

I draw your attention to the words in bold.

NO THERE IS NOT AN INCREASED RISK, BECAUSE IF THERE WERE WE WOULD SEE IT IN THE 40+ CONTROL EXPERIMENTS.

WERE ANY OF YOUR (NON) EXAMPLES EVEN FROM COUNTRIES WITH SELF ID? :whistle:

Your "increased risk" is in your head. It's ideologically driven. Why, because self ID exists in 40+ countries and nobody is reporting an "increased occurrence".

It's bullshït, icow.

This is why you GC people are so akin to every other conspiracy theorist out there. You've no grounding in reality.
 
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multitool

Pharaoh
Since Aurora mentioned biological women in sport, here's two biological women in sport:

FwP_cMnWwAAanay.jpeg.jpg


Oh.

As I said, it's primacy of biological sex when it suits Aurora, but not when it doesn't.
 
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