Ian H
Legendary Member
I'm not an expert, but doesn't it involve brainwashing and electrodes? I think the 'success' rates are pretty low.
Gender again. Sorry!
- Thread starter theclaud
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I'm not an expert, but doesn't it involve brainwashing and electrodes? I think the 'success' rates are pretty low.
icowden
Legendary Member
Ian H
Legendary Member
AndyRM
Elder Goth
IME, they very much are. A chap who was part of my parents congregation had been put through the indignity of conversion therapy. It didn't work, and last I heard he is happily married to his husband.
I recently watched They/Them, which I thought was a pretty good take on the nonsensical hypocrisy of certain religious takes on homosexuality.
multitool
Guest
icowden
Legendary Member
Hmmm... Let's deal with Tatchell's data first which isn't in the Guardian article.
https://insidetime.org/only-six-trans-women-in-womens-prisons/
There were about 3000 women in prison in the UK during 2016-2020. A staggering 10% of all assaults in women's prison were carried out by 6 people? That's 0.03% of assaults per person committed by women but 1.66% assaults per person for transwomen making them 55.5% more likely to carry out an assault.
So out of 97 sexual assaults, 7 of those involved those 6 transwomen. So women commit 0.03% of assaults per person whilst transwomen commit 1.16 sexual assaults per person making them 38.66% more likely to attack a woman prisoner.
Yes, I agree. Pretty alarming. I'm not sure that transwomen should be in women's prisons on this basis.
monkers
Legendary Member
Frankly I'm surprised to see that someone who works within the field of data is so clueless about data processing. 'Involved' doesn't differentiate between aggressor and victim. 'Transgender' does not equal 'trans women'.
To cap it all you miss the line which informs us that since 2019 there have been no cases at all of trans prisoners (that's trans men and trans women) assaulting others in the female prison estate. You find that 'pretty alarming'?
It's almost as if you and Aurora are the same person.
matticus
Guru
I think she just wanted to get up close to the bass bins.
multitool
Guest
<unintentional Rolf H>
Can you see what it is yet?
View: https://twitter.com/ICanSeeForever1/status/1665737040397320194?s=20
Can you see what it is yet?
View: https://twitter.com/ICanSeeForever1/status/1665737040397320194?s=20
slowmotion
Active Member
Oh Lordy. Please don't open up a discussion about the P Word. It'll end in tears.
winjim
Welcome yourself into the new modern crisis
Difficult to have a proper conversation about gender without it, n'est-ce pas?
slowmotion
Active Member
That's one view, I suppose.
icowden
Legendary Member
I think you missed the point which is that with rubbish stats like those provided you can make them tell any story you want.
Actually no. I was referring to the way the data can be portrayed to sensationalise things. There was a policy review in 2019 which does appear to have fixed things somewhat.
AuroraSaab
Squire
Once again, personal comments rather than arguing your case.
There are 3200 women in the female prison estate. Between all the 3,000 plus of them, they committed 90 sex assaults on fellow prisoners. That's about 1 assault per 35 prisoners. There are 6 transwomen in the female estate. And they were responsible for 7 sex assaults. You can try to spin it any way you like but that is an astounding difference in frequency.
35 times the risk. And those 6 transwomen are supposedly the safest ones to house with women - so the 'safest' 6 transwomen still manage to comit (an average of) at least one assault each. And yet Zoe wants the other 100 plus, some of whom are sex offenders, to be in the female estate as well.
Zoe Williams' opinion piece is the usual nonsense of 'you're going to get assaulted anyway, so adding blokes to the mix shouldn't matter'. She conflates safeguarding with prejudice and displays the luxury belief of someone who will likely never find herself in jail with a male, or a domestic violence refuge with a male, or being unable to refuse an opposite sex carer.
Women's jails are not there to provide a safe haven for men that other men don't like. Women are not human shields whose well-being is to be regarded as acceptable collateral damage. Plenty of other vulnerable men are accommodated in the male estate - there is no reason why transwomen can't be accommodated there also.
The Karen White court case was December 2018. After this it became increasingly difficult for transwomen to transfer to the female estate. That might have something to do with the reduction in transwomen committing assaults; fewer were being allowed to transfer. Numbers were reducing as transwomen prisoners completed their sentences and others weren't allowed to move over.
Sounds like reducing the number of transwomen in women's jails is reducing the number of assaults they comit. Instead of thinking this is a good thing, Zoe wants to transfer the rest and see how they get on.
Also, the number of transwomen prisoners counted as being in the female estate only includes those without a GRC. Those with a GRC aren't counted as transwomen, so any assaults they committed would be recorded in the 'done by female prisoners' stats.
And of course, the stats only record actual assaults. They don't record the distress that it might bring to already vulnerable women to be forced to have males accommodated with them.
Try and spin it however you like. Transwomen in the female estate comit a disproportionately high number of assaults compared to women.
