Gender again. Sorry!

[multitool]

@multitool and @AndyRM

If you want to wrestle each other (metaphorically of course) then get a room.

I'll pass on that. He seems to rock up wherever I post looking for a fight. But, yes, it's tedious for everyone else to have to plough through.

 

[Pale Rider]

@multitool and @AndyRM

If you want to wrestle each other (metaphorically of course) then get a room.

Yeah, and if you really want to wrestle each other, get a ring.

Social values, less good perhaps.

That's where 'enlightened' gives me some sliding room.

 

[AuroraSaab]

You didn't even read it, did you. For a start, it was a study of Swedish men, 18 years ago.

No reason to think Swedish men are different ftom any other men.

It is in no way the evidence of the threat you pretend is there.

It's evidence that there are men for whom dressing in women's clothes is a sexual thrill.

You would give these men access to women's spaces and services. How do you expect women to tell which men are which?

The vagaries of an umbrella term such as 'transgender' is not a sound basis for lumping people together as if they are all the same. Instead it requires interpretation by a nuanced mind. I guess some people have one, and some don't.

How do we apply nuance when presented with a male body in the women's showers? Look away? Give the man with his penis on display the benefit of the doubt?

In practical terms there's no difference between any male in these circumstances. Certainly not one of correct labels.

 

[Bromptonaut]

It's evidence that there are men for whom dressing in women's clothes is a sexual thrill.

You would give these men access to women's spaces and services. How do you expect women to tell which men are which?

If they look sexually thrilled they're probably committing an offence for which they can be removed and charged.

If they've been on hormones and demonstrate the effects @monkers has described probably not.

How do we apply nuance when presented with a male body in the women's showers? Look away? Give the man with his penis on display the benefit of the doubt?

In practical terms there's no difference between any male in these circumstances. Certainly not one of correct labels.

See above.

 

[multitool]

No reason to think Swedish men are different ftom any other men.


It's evidence that there are men for whom dressing in women's clothes is a sexual thrill.

You would give these men access to women's spaces and services. How do you expect women to tell which men are which?



How do we apply nuance when presented with a male body in the women's showers? Look away? Give the man with his penis on display the benefit of the doubt?

In practical terms there's no difference between any male in these circumstances. Certainly not one of correct labels.

It's evidence that 2.8% of Swedish men, nearly 20 years ago, tried on some women's clothing and found it exciting. It is not evidence that they did it more than once.

Equally, they might all be gay for all we know.

 

[AuroraSaab]

If they look sexually thrilled they're probably committing an offence for which they can be removed and charged.

So as long as it's a man without an erection, you're fine with it? Just listen to yourself.

If they've been on hormones and demonstrate the effects @monkers has described probably not.

Is any man with erectile dysfunction welcome then? Again, just listen to yourself .... doing all you can to justify men in women's vulnerable spaces.

It's evidence that 2.8% of Swedish men, nearly 20 years ago, tried on some women's clothing and found it exciting. It is not evidence that they did it more than once.

Equally, they might all be gay for all we know.

What on earth does being gay have to do with cross dressing? Being a gay man is not akin to a paraphilia. It's pretty much the sort of homophobic, regressive, stereotype cr*p I'd expect from you though.

Do you have a figure in mind for the number of men with this fetish at which point it should be a concern? Obviously if you are going to argue it's rare, then it must mean that the transwomen sex offenders are highly unlikely to have it and therefore aren't 'faking' being trans as some would have us believe.

 

[multitool]

What on earth does being gay have to do with cross dressing? Being a gay man is not akin to a paraphilia. It's pretty much the sort of homophobic, regressive, stereotype cr*p I'd expect from you though.

You dork.

I'm not saying that all gay men enjoy dressing as women. I'm saying that some may, and given that there is no indication of sexuality of the sample in that Swedish study some or all of them might be gay, in which case they are unlikely to pose a threat to women.

The key point is that, as always, you are misusing data and trying to twist it to fit your little hobbyhorse

 

[Deleted member 159]

Have you not seen the Riley Gaines senate hearings. These women were completely shocked when a complete male was changing in their dressing room. Most of the women had to change in the janitors office away from this male.

They were threatened by the university if they complained at the time.

It's all coming out now and soon enough they will ban all men however they identify themselves from women's area's including sport.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Those advocating that men, transvestites, or trans should be able to access women's personal changing areas, because they have self declared.

Would you want your wife and or daughter in close proximity to a fully intact naked male changing alongside your child, spouse?

I think you're trolling here but we're talking specifically about trans women. If you bother to read up on the subject Self ID is about how, as a trans person, one gets legal recognition of the fact that you've changed from the sex/gender allocated at birth to another. It is, at best, peripherally relevant to accessing women's changing rooms or toilets etc.

My wife has seen fully intact naked males before, my daughter too - she's 30. As one of my wife's Grannies used to say; If they can see anything they've not got they can hang their hat on it'.

A younger child will ask questions about why there's somebody over there with both a willy and boobies. Just as they'll ask how the baby got into their friend's Mummy's tummy.

Rather than waving your petticoats in a panic just give an age appropriate answer.

 

[classic33]

You are right. Why is that? Surely you can accept that there are a large number of men for whom dressing in stereotypical women's clothes is a paraphilia? These people are now under the transgender umbrella. There's no differentiation between them and people with lifelong dysphoria.

Which wouldn't be a problem if there wasn't a huge push for access to women's single sex spaces for all those who say 'I am a woman'.





Men have been shown to be unsafe around vulnerable women for hundreds of years so that caveat applies to their single sex spaces, regardless of how that man identifies. Again though, how do we know who is genuinely trans? Lots of men are lovely. They don't expect access because they understand that being male is a factor in itself in making women feel vulnerable.

If it's not a mental illness, why does it require medication and in some cases surgery?

This hierarchy of genuine transness that you propose is very interesting. It completely undermines the innate gender identity theory and the whole 'the child knows best who they are' mantra that underpins the Affirmation model. It allows you to offload the transwomen sex offenders rather than acknowledge that self ID poses issues though, I suppose.

As pointed out earlier, trans men outnumber trans women in Ireland. And have done, every year, since 2015.
Why is that?

 

[bobzmyunkle]

Rather than waving your petticoats in a panic just give an age appropriate answer.

Yes, come on girls, stop being so damn hysterical.

 

[monkers]

Yes, come on girls, stop being so damn hysterical.

I think you'll find it means ' try being an adult'.

 

[Deleted member 159]

trans women

The male swimmer was identifying themselves as a woman.

 

[monkers]

Have you not seen the Riley Gaines senate hearings. These women were completely shocked when a complete male was changing in their dressing room. Most of the women had to change in the janitors office away from this male.

They were threatened by the university if they complained at the time.

It's all coming out now and soon enough they will ban all men however they identify themselves from women's area's including sport.

If you are talking about Lia Thomas as I think you may be, Lia is not a 'complete male'. I'd change in the same room as Lia Thomas and think nothing of it.

I don't know where you are in the world, but from what I see, the USA is an astonishingly backward country where even the sight of female nipple can be an offence.

 

[Bromptonaut]

If you are talking about Lia Thomas as I think you may be, Lia is not a 'complete male'. I'd change in the same room as Lia Thomas and think nothing of it.

I don't know where you are in the world, but from what I see, the USA is an astonishingly backward country where even the sight of female nipple can be an offence.

That exactly. The common language lulls us into thinking they're just like us. They're not, the US, particularly away from the NE and Western Seaboards is much more foreign than France.