Gender again. Sorry!

[Deleted member 121]

Sports is now sorted, males are banned from female events

Can't blame em. Female darts tournaments pays fück all.

 

[AuroraSaab]

But here's the thing, can you actually find any evidence of harm? So far it's all theoretical.

The need for privacy, dignity, safety away from men that women are given by having single sex services and facilities is well documented.

The 'harm' comes from men. It isn't theoretical. There are no special groups of men.

There is nothing in this so-called evidence that shows that trans women with a GRC (the cohort under attack here) are responsible for any attacks on women.

This is like saying 'There's no proof that green eyed men make women uncomfortable in their single sex spaces so we should let green eyed men in......". They are all just men, regardless of eye colour, dress, or whatever certificate they hold.

All we have is an acknowledgement that there's no data.

Plenty of data about males. There is no difference between a man and a transwoman that is relevant to access to single sex spaces and services other than their self perception.

Find the harm that trans women are causing in women's toilets. If your world wide search finds 7 results in a population of 7 billion, you do know that means women are safe from attacks by trans women with a GRC. Right?

'Find the harm that green eyed men are causing in women's toilets ... if you find 7 results that means women are safe from green eyed men and they should be allowed in toilets, changing rooms, women's refuges ...'

'Because green eyed men aren't like other men'.

There are no special groups of men.

 

[monkers]

Classic woke diversion tactic.

Stick to the point. The survey is relevant and obvious simple solution.

This protects biological women and girls in toilet/changing areas.

Sports is now sorted, males are banned from female events.

The 'survey' is silent on the point of the number of assaults on women by trans women with a GRC.

If you can't make that point, you can't press that point. If it was a real difficulty, there would be data.

Sport was always a delegated responsibility under the law. I've never contested the point, other than the claim that it is what 'all' female athletes want, which is a lie. The claim that there is always advantage is another lie. The claim that trans women have an advantage is true, but the root of that is shown to be less about biology, and more about social and economic factors - still important, but not as per the biology claim.

Trans women using the female loo are compliant with the law. There is no evidence that there is an increased risk of harm to women.

 

[monkers]

'Because green eyed men aren't like other men'.

In the UK trans women with a GRC being men is a rarer characteristic than 'green-eyed men'. This is because there are precisely none.

 

[classic33]

Y'all harp on how such a small percentage are trans, then a simple solution is to give them access to disable toilets, or toilets of the the sex that they were born with.

What is wrong with that?

The problem, as given to us. Is that you'd then have women who identify, and in all probability dress and act like men(trans men) in the women and girls toilets/changing area. And you'd never be able to tell the difference,* thereby making it no safer. They should be accepted into the men and boys toilets/changing areas. Men/boys would have no trouble accepting them in their single sex areas, would they.


*That's one area where the "Mick Dundee" test could/would be used.

 

[monkers]

I noticed last that the number of bots visiting the site was greater than the number of people 10:7. Some were exploring this thread. So I decided to ask ChatbotGPT a question to see what had been learnt.

The question ...

has the presence of trans women in female toilets harmed women?

The reply ...

As of my last update in September 2021, there is no empirical evidence to suggest that the presence of transgender women in female toilets has caused harm to cisgender women (those whose gender identity matches the sex they were assigned at birth). The debate around transgender rights and access to gender-segregated spaces, including restrooms, has been a contentious issue in many societies.

It's essential to distinguish between evidence-based research and personal opinions or anecdotes. Multiple studies have indicated that allowing transgender individuals to use restrooms that align with their gender identity does not pose a threat to public safety. These studies often show that transgender people are more likely to face harassment and violence when forced to use restrooms that do not align with their gender identity.

The concerns about transgender women in female restrooms are often based on misunderstandings or fears. It is essential to promote a safe and inclusive environment for everyone, including transgender individuals. Many countries and regions have introduced policies to protect transgender people from discrimination and ensure their right to access facilities according to their gender identity.

It's important to remember that promoting tolerance and understanding among all individuals can lead to a society that is more inclusive and respectful of diverse identities. If you seek more recent information, it's recommended to look for updated studies and reports on this topic.

 

[Deleted member 159]

Can't blame em. Female darts tournaments pays fück all.

Would you call a sport, more a skill game like snooker

 

[Deleted member 159]

I noticed last that the number of bots visiting the site was greater than the number of people 10:7. Some were exploring this thread. So I decided to ask ChatbotGPT a question to see what had been learnt.

The question ...



The reply ...

. Stop it, you just typed the replies.

Now there are bots pointing out obvious, factual arguments.

 

[Deleted member 159]

Anyhow back on track the independent article has no evidence to suggest it's incorrect - apart from monkey saying I don't like it 😜

 

[classic33]

The need for privacy, dignity, safety away from men that women are given by having single sex services and facilities is well documented. The 'harm' comes from men. It isn't theoretical. There are no special groups of men. This is like saying 'There's no proof that green eyed men make women uncomfortable in their single sex spaces so we should let green eyed men in......". They are all just men, regardless of eye colour, dress, or whatever certificate they hold. Plenty of data about males. There is no difference between a man and a transwoman that is relevant to access to single sex spaces and services other than their self perception. 'Find the harm that green eyed men are causing in women's toilets ... if you find 7 results that means women are safe from green eyed men and they should be allowed in toilets, changing rooms, women's refuges ...' 'Because green eyed men aren't like other men'. There are no special groups of men.

Are you trying to introduce the green eyed monster into your argument now?
If so, it's worth bearing in mind that more women than men have green eyes.

 

[Deleted member 159]

The problem, as given to us. Is that you'd then have women who identify, and in all probability dress and act like men(trans men) in the women and girls toilets/changing area. And you'd never be able to tell the difference,* thereby making it no safer. They should be accepted into the men and boys toilets/changing areas. Men/boys would have no trouble accepting them in their single sex areas, would they.


*That's one area where the "Mick Dundee" test could/would be used.

Do women rape men? No,

they pose no threat to biological men. Unless you have a mass group of bearded darlings

 

[Pale Rider]

ChatbotGPT was summed up for me when one of the cycling commentators asked it a question about one of the top pros.

The reply included that this rider had won two big, named, races.

The commentator knew the rider had never competed in those races, let alone won them.

 

[monkers]

ChatbotGPT was summed up for me when one of the cycling commentators asked it a question about one of the top pros.

The reply included that this rider had won two big, named, races.

The commentator knew the rider had never competed in those races, let alone won them.

Exactly, Neither Aurora, Andy, or ChatGPT are expert enough to carry out a detailed analysis. Neither do I have that expertise, and if I did, I just wouldn't / couldn't be bothered. I'd rather just let people be and go out on my bike, which is exactly what I'm going to be doing in 20 minutes time.

And if I see a trans woman in the loo, I'll just treat them the same as any other woman.

 

[AuroraSaab]

In the UK trans women with a GRC being men is a rarer characteristic than 'green-eyed men'. This is because there are precisely none.

All transwomen are men by definition. The onus is on you to show why they should be treated any differently to other men who also perceive themselves to be different to the rest of the male population.

The problem, as given to us. Is that you'd then have women who identify, and in all probability dress and act like men(trans men) in the women and girls toilets/changing area. And you'd never be able to tell the difference,* thereby making it no safer.

I would dispute that you can never tell the difference. Nonetheless, all women are welcome in female services and facilities regardless of how they look .... because they are women.

As I have said previously, if you guys think transmen should be using male facilities that is up to you guys to decide. Obviously they are no physical risk to you but some men might not feel comfortable.

They should be accepted into the men and boys toilets/changing areas. Men/boys would have no trouble accepting them in their single sex areas, would they.

That's up to you gents to decide if you wish to accommodate them then.

Exactly, Neither Aurora, Andy, or ChatGPT are expert enough to carry out a detailed analysis.

When we get experts that disagree with you - legal experts, government medical experts, sports experts - they aren't expert enough either though. So you thought you'd see if ChatGPT would help you out and bingo, it did.

 

[Deleted member 159]

So WTF are you going on about.

It would seem you have some skin in the game.