Gender again. Sorry!

[Pale Rider]

Exactly, Neither Aurora, Andy, or ChatGPT are expert enough to carry out a detailed analysis. Neither do I have that expertise, and if I did, I just wouldn't / couldn't be bothered. I'd rather just let people be and go out on my bike, which is exactly what I'm going to be doing in 20 minutes time.

And if I see a trans woman in the loo, I'll just treat them the same as any other woman.

With you on that, but I don't think you need much research to know that the lasses in my local gym don't want blokes - however they are dressed - in their changing rooms.

The tiniest amount of human empathy tells us those wishes should be respected.

 

[classic33]

Do women rape men? No,

they pose no threat to biological men. Unless you have a mass group of bearded darlings

View attachment 4268

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-49057533

 

[monkers]

With you on that, but I don't think you need much research to know that the lasses in my local gym don't want blokes - however they are dressed - in their changing rooms.

The tiniest amount of human empathy tells us those wishes should be respected.

This lass in the local gym couldn't care less about a trans woman in the gym. Anyway time to go.

 

[classic33]

All transwomen are men by definition. The onus is on you to show why they should be treated any differently to other men who also perceive themselves to be different to the rest of the male population.

I would dispute that you can never tell the difference. Nonetheless, all women are welcome in female services and facilities regardless of how they look .... because they are women.

As I have said previously, if you guys think transmen should be using male facilities that is up to you guys to decide. Obviously they are no physical risk to you but some men might not feel comfortable.

That's up to you gents to decide if you wish to accommodate them then.

When we get experts that disagree with you - legal experts, government medical experts, sports experts - they aren't expert enough either though. So you thought you'd see if ChatGPT would help you out and bingo, it did.

Those in bold were assertions by yourself.

 

[classic33]

Do women rape men? No,

they pose no threat to biological men. Unless you have a mass group of bearded darlings

View attachment 4268

Search for Vicki Bevan.

Just men?

Mentioned her, Vicki Bevan, earlier.
"After Bevan was arrested in October last year, she pleaded guilty to 34 offences in January including:

• Rape
• Two counts of sexual assault
• Four counts of sexual assault by penetration
• One count of attempted sexual assault by penetration
• Inciting a child to engage in sexual activity
• Three counts of sexual activity with a child
• 17 counts of making indecent images of children
• Three counts of distributing indecent photographs of a child
• Two counts of possessing extreme pornography

 

[Deleted member 159]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-49057533

So you picked a super rare mentally disturbed woman, who was violent.

There are mental conditions which can lead to hypersexual activity.

bipolar disorders, major depressive disorder, ADHD, PTSD, and obsessive-compulsive disorder may be underlying mental illnesses for people with out-of-control sexual issues.

These conditions, autism also are often prevalent with body dysphoria

 

[Pale Rider]

This lass in the local gym couldn't care less about a trans woman in the gym. Anyway time to go.

I can't accept you believe that, even if you do think the lasses are misguided.

My local gym keeps an eye out for blokes hanging around, let alone those trying to access the women-only areas.

Attire is of no relevance, although I don't doubt a bloke in a dress would raise even more suspicions - the north east, generally, has what we might call traditional views.

Which is no bad thing in this scenario.

 

[Deleted member 159]

This lass in the local gym couldn't care less about a trans woman in the gym. Anyway time to go.

So a fully intact male(this could a trans also) came over and stared at you getting a shower in the gym changing rooms, you're ok with that?

 

[AuroraSaab]

As I recall Monkers view is that a) women and girls should look away if they see a penis in a women's single sex facility, and b) they shouldn't go to such places if they don't want to see male genitalia. Remember these are women's facilities we are talking about.

In the context of this, trans people who are merely naked for the purpose of changing clothes, showering etc are not committing an offence. For an offence to be committed, there needs to be something sexual to be concurrently occurring.

Therefore, if one wishes to avoid seeing a penis, one either has to avoid those areas where they are most likely to deal with it, or remember that under the law their have to just be bit more mature and have the facility to deal with it by looking away.

There is no right to have a facility where you can expect to get naked with others present and police who may be there. There is no such women's rights - this is just a fantasy.

And if you don't want to see penises in the women and girls changing rooms, well you're just a prude:

You are not a feminist, you're a reactionary prude.

 

[Deleted member 159]

As I recall Monkers view is that a) women and girls should look away if they see a penis in a women's single sex facility, and b) they shouldn't go to such places if they don't want to see male genitalia. Remember these are women's facilities we are talking about

That's completely arse about face.

Women do not have to put up with any dressed or naked male in their changing rooms/'toilets

 

[Bromptonaut]

That's completely arse about face.

Women do not have to put up with any dressed or naked male in their changing rooms/'toilets

Dressed males are routinely in female toilets - cleaning them. Dressed women in men's too.

The position at the other end of the spectrum to the 'TERF' one regarding penises in the spaces where women are actually naked and potentially vulnerable is, I think, as follows:

1. You'd only see it at all if somebody was being immodest and not using a cubicle, curtain towel or gown;
2. That's once in a blue moon territory;
3. If its owner has been on hormones it's size/capacity are, see posts upthread, those of a child. Save clutching you pears for when it matters;
4. If its owner, or anyone else, is displaying any genitalia in a way that's threatening there are plenty of offences that might be charged.

 

[Pale Rider]

1. You'd only see it at all if somebody was being immodest and not using a cubicle, curtain towel or gown;
2. That's once in a blue moon territory;
3. If its owner has been on hormones it's size/capacity are, see posts upthread, those of a child. Save clutching you pears for when it matters;
4. If its owner, or anyone else, is displaying any genitalia in a way that's threatening there are plenty of offences that might be charged.

That is massively over complicating a simple question.

The answer being to let women have their own toilets and changing rooms.

 

[monkers]

I can't accept you believe that, even if you do think the lasses are misguided.

Me? I couldn't care tuppence.

Actually I prefer a private room to change as a first preference. But if the only space is a shared space, then I'll use it, no drama, I'm a pragmatist. If there's a trans woman there, it makes not a jot of difference to me. I don't subscribe to this alarmist nonsense that trans women are there to appropriate space, or that they are predators, they are there to do the same as others.

I've shared spaces with trans women, they are not the monsters that these GC folk want to portray them as.

Are you that easily offended that a trans man in a male changing room changed there while you were there?

 

[monkers]

So a fully intact male(this could a trans also) came over and stared at you getting a shower in the gym changing rooms, you're ok with that?

But we are not talking about men are we, we are talking about trans women, who are women.

 

[Deleted member 159]

Me? I couldn't care tuppence.

Actually I prefer a private room to change as a first preference. But if the only space is a shared space, then I'll use it, no drama, I'm a pragmatist. If there's a trans woman there, it makes not a jot of difference to me. I don't subscribe to this alarmist nonsense that trans women are there to appropriate space, or that they are predators, they are there to do the same as others.

I've shared spaces with trans women, they are not the monsters that these GC folk want to portray them as.

Are you that easily offended that a trans man in a male changing room changed there while you were there?

You know full well men have a long history of predation of women. Not all men but a significantly large minority.


Your personal opinion doesn't matter when we are talking about the general public of women. The vast majority don't want any males in the safe spaces.

You've clearly stated you prefer a private room, so have a certain level of privacy you'd want to maintain, but would accept a communal changing area as second best.

You have just confirmed what just about every women wants is privacy/safety from men