Gender again. Sorry!

[Ian H]

I saw a vid a while ago - couldn't find it now - of what looked like a bloke who decided to film himself going into a chicken shop.

He was wearing jeans and a leather jacket, and had longish hair and eye make up - that being the only clue he might identify as a woman.

During the verbal interaction to order his/her meal, the young assistant managed to call him 'sir'.

Hard to see any malice in that, she was little more than a child, but it didn't half set the customer off on one.

He bellowed the same old stuff about transphobia, his rights, etc, etc.

A supervisor arrived and tried to calm the situation.

Comically, she managed to call him 'bro' - it was in America - which only made the situation worse.

The poor fellow then had to reach for even higher levels of indignation.

That he decided in advance to film the transaction suggests he was hoping to spark a dispute.

I wonder how many chicken dinners he had to buy that day to get the result he wanted.

It's the way you tell 'em.

 

[Pale Rider]

It's the way you tell 'em.

It was funny.

Reminded me of a few instances at work when a story went a bit wrong.

The more we tried to straighten it out, the worse it got.

 

[Bromptonaut]

I don't think you did.

But at what point exactly does a man become a woman in the transition process?

Formally, upon the issue of a GRC and a birth certificate in their new gender.

In practical terms, based on Heather referenced above, when the live in the acquired gender, as the current law requires.

 

[AndyRM]

I don't agree it all, i mean re-read what i wrote and replace wokeism with ''suck it up buttercup'' apart from the sentence being a bit weird it doesn't change anything.
However just as we can attribute some charatistics to people who favor communism, other to poeple who favor republicanism, others to the hippie area and so on there are also things attributed to woke. For example ignoring all context raise your own victimhood above everything else, portray yourself as an oppressed victim only to oppress other opinions and shelving away any criticism as ''homophobic'' ''transphobic'' ''racist etc. not only does that not help any discussion it also decreases the meaning of those words.

The difference is, I don't actually go around using words like "woke" or "snowflake" and to be honest I don't think I've ever heard "suck it up buttercup" used in public, and even then only by friends who use it ironically.

I agree that incorrectly calling out language is unhelpful, but if something is discriminatory then what's the problem?

 

[AndyRM]

It's the way you tell 'em.

I've seen the video, assuming it's the same one. Dunno about the jeans, but they're wearing a crop top...

No idea why they went defcon one from the start, but if it's happening repeatedly I can see why they'd be a bit pissed off.

I really don't see the need for the aggression on either side to be honest, but if someone asks you to respect their pronouns it really isn't that difficult.

 

[Pale Rider]

but if someone asks you to respect their pronouns it really isn't that difficult.

Probably is the same video.

I don't recall the person saying anything other than what I would say to order a chicken dinner.

He certainly didn't make any request to respect his pronouns.

My guess is a bored and low-paid takeaway assistant rarely pays much attention to any customer.

A glance at this person and she formed the reasonable impression he was male.

A more mature and observant assistant might have thought 'I'm not sure what's afoot here, so best I don't make any reference to this customer's gender'.

If someone mis-gendered me in these circumstances, I'd take a lot of convincing there was any malice in it.

This person took the opposite approach, seizing on a single word.

 

[AndyRM]

Probably is the same video.

I don't recall the person saying anything other than what I would say to order a chicken dinner.

He certainly didn't make any request to respect his pronouns.

My guess is a bored and low-paid takeaway assistant rarely pays much attention to any customer.

A glance at this person and she formed the reasonable impression he was male.

A more mature and observant assistant might have thought 'I'm not sure what's afoot here, so best I don't make any reference to this customer's gender'.

If someone mis-gendered me in these circumstances, I'd take a lot of convincing there was any malice in it.

This person took the opposite approach, seizing on a single word.

If you're repeatedly misgendered it's damaging, hurtful and upsetting. Is it right to take it out on someone who doesn't deserve it? No. Do I understand why it happens? Yes.

Basic courtesy all round would be the ideal, but these extreme scenarios happen. A lot less often than the internet and the media would like to have people believe, but we're at that sensationalist point with the issue and I'm not sure there's a way back.

 

[AndyRM]

Anyway, haven't seen Quinn mentioned on this thread yet:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66299441

 

[AuroraSaab]

In practical terms, based on Heather referenced above, when they live in the acquired gender, as the current law requires.

How does a woman live? Can you give us some examples? Ones that aren't related to stereotypes hopefully.

 

[Pale Rider]

A lot less often than the internet and the media would like to have people believe, but we're at that sensationalist point with the issue and I'm not sure there's a way back.

The alleged victim in this case took the video and decided to post it.

Shame he couldn't find a video of genuine abuse, perhaps those people are so clever they only have a pop at him when he's not got his camera running.

If abuse is a genuine problem for him, he needs to find a much better way to illustrate it.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Looks like World Aquatics are developing a new transgender policy. They have previously protected the women's category by saying transwomen can't compete in it. Now it looks like they are planning an Open category just for trans swimmers (as opposed to making an Open category for anyone not eligiblefor the female class). Not many details atm, but not sure how this would work in a practical sense. Presumably it means transmen on testosterone could compete in this Open category, alongside transwomen.

Presumably non binary people are eligible too. Bit unclear at the moment.

 

[CXRAndy]

Looks like World Aquatics are developing a new transgender policy. They have previously protected the women's category by saying transwomen can't compete in it. Now it looks like they are planning an Open category just for trans swimmers (as opposed to making an Open category for anyone not eligiblefor the female class). Not many details atm, but not sure how this would work in a practical sense. Presumably it means transmen on testosterone could compete in this Open category, alongside transwomen.

Presumably non binary people are eligible too. Bit unclear at the moment.

It won't last, the sport will become a laughing stock

 

[CXRAndy]

Probably is the same video

Funny as hell


View: https://youtu.be/1sJPeyAFud0

 

[monkers]

How does a woman live?

It's instructive that you are unsure.

Essentially each woman is free to make her own choices of how to live. Some women adhere to the stereotypes, others like me don't.

The problem comes when there are people who go around criticising other people because they think that others should comply with their own expectations of how others should live, often caused by some irrational fear or another.

 

[Bromptonaut]

It's instructive that you are unsure.

Essentially each woman is free to make her own choices of how to live. Some women adhere to the stereotypes, others like me don't.

The problem comes when there are people who go around criticising other people because they think that others should comply with their own expectations of how others should live, often caused by some irrational fear or another.

Thanks @monkers

That's what I was trying to compose as a reply only more succinct and from a woman.