Gender again. Sorry!

[icowden]

Surgery is routinely carried out on people who feel that there body is the wrong for them. Be it parts not the correct shape/size, or weight.

Is it? I'm not sure it is. I'm pretty sure it's only done for health reasons (e.g. gastric band for morbid obesity, breast reduction where breast tissue is so heavy it is affecting the musculoskeletal system and quality of life etc).

 

[multitool]

Is it? I'm not sure it is. I'm pretty sure it's only done for health reasons (e.g. gastric band for morbid obesity, breast reduction where breast tissue is so heavy it is affecting the musculoskeletal system and quality of life etc).

Cosmetic surgery? Breast enlargement/reduction, face-lifts, lip fillers, dental implants etc etc

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...n=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

 

[icowden]

Cosmetic surgery? Breast enlargement/reduction, face-lifts, lip fillers, dental implants etc etc

All only done for health reasons (e.g. burns reconstruction) unless you pay to do it privately.

 

[multitool]

All only done for health reasons (e.g. burns reconstruction) unless you pay to do it privately.

And why does whether one pays for the surgery or not affect the morality of the surgery?

 

[AuroraSaab]

How do you propose kids, or anyone, who feel their body is the wrong shape and isn't theirs, be dealt with?

The same way health care deals with children with anorexia - therapy that explores why they feel like they do, not giving them drugs and surgery to attain their ideal weight.

Who's normal are they trying to fit into. And why?

Children with body dysphoria are often gay or non conforming to society's stereotypes. If society was more accepting of people who didn't conform perhaps they wouldn't feel the need to aspire to be the opposite sex. Wouldn't you prefer everybody was comfortable with their body as it is, rather than believing drugs and surgery will solve the problem?

Surgery is routinely carried out on people who feel that there body is the wrong for them. Be it parts not the correct shape/size, or weight. You offer most a quick way of "fixing the issue" via surgery, or just talking about how they should just accept that their body is how it's meant to be.

The answer is to change how society behaves not encourage people to change their bodies to fit arbitrary stereotypes, especially one that is never achievable like changing sex.

Tell that to someone who's being bullied at school because they don't feel that their body is right for them.

Then you stop the bullying, you don't physically change a child with meds and surgery to accommodate bullies.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Cosmetic surgery? Breast enlargement/reduction, face-lifts, lip fillers, dental implants etc etc

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...n=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

Yes, and feminists have long campaigned against the ridiculous beauty standards that society demands of people, especially women, that leads to people wanting these procedures.

Huge difference between lip fillers and a double mastectomy. Huge difference between pec implants and castration.

 

[multitool]

If society was more accepting of people who didn't conform perhaps they wouldn't feel the need to aspire to be the opposite sex

Thus speaks the very model of tolerance

 

[icowden]

And why does whether one pays for the surgery or not affect the morality of the surgery?

It doesn't. But it does highlight that if you pay privately for your child to be surgically mutilated that it is immoral (as opposed to having it for "health reasons" by a team of professionals). See the zealot in charge of Mermaids for more details.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Thus speaks the very model of tolerance

I'm more tolerant of gender non conformity that people who think gay kids are 'born in the wrong body' or boys who like dressing up might be girls. And I can tolerate having a discussion without immediately falling back on sweary personal abuse, so there's that.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Don't be so bloody stupid.

More than 40 pages of a legal judgment is not a starter for anything.

My position is simple, children should be told to wait until they are older before taking any irreversible decisions on gender.

What do you say this case has to say about that?

Seems to me 'nothing' is the obvious answer.

You don't need to read the whole thing. I pointed you to a few paragraphs where the practical effects of gender incongruence in young children was described by their parents. There was also some history from adults.

As to your 'position' here it's similar to that in you take in several other threads; dogmatism trumps facts.

I can't work out whether you're really that way or whether you're a wind up merchant...

 

[AuroraSaab]

How about reading up on the subject. Here's a starter for you:

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content...RS-v-NHS-Commission-Board-Judgment-160123.pdf

The facts in para 35 on....

All those descriptions of 'trans children' start with 'liked playing with girl toys' or 'didn't want to dress like a girl'. If your son likes dresses and dolls, you take him shopping for dresses and dolls. If your daughter likes short hair and 'boys' t shirts you find a good barber and take her to the boys section of TKMaxx.

Calling these kids trans is just the new way of calling them gay. It's putting ideas in their head just because they don't conform to stereotypes. There's no reason for any child to think they are the opposite sex unless they are measuring themselves against sexist stereotypes of what boys and girls should like and finding themselves wanting.

We should be accepting them exactly as they are rather than pretending to them that they can change sex. It's regressive and homophobic.

 

[multitool]

I'm more tolerant of gender non conformity that people who think gay kids are 'born in the wrong body' or boys who like dressing up might be girls. And I can tolerate having a discussion without immediately falling back on sweary personal abuse, so there's that.

You hate trans women. It seeps out of your pores, despite your attempts to hide it.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I don't think the nebulous concept of gender should overide the reality of sex in law, and I think men shouldn't be in women's single sex spaces and services, regardless of how they identify. Perhaps it's you that doesn't like women seeing as you routinely defend the idea of men being in women's spaces, jails, and sports.

Kidnapper, sexual abuser, attempted murderer, 'Punch a terf' advocate Sarah Jane Barker is on hunger strike to be moved to a women's prison.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/uk.new...rans-activist-sarah-jane-baker-113837130.html

 

[Pale Rider]

As to your 'position' here it's similar to that in you take in several other threads; dogmatism trumps facts.

Tripe, what I said was I object to children being assisted to change gender.

That is not a dogma because I am not insisting anything is fact.

Other than children are assisted to change gender, which is the only thing of relevance your 40+ pages of a legal judgement tells us.

 

[winjim]

Just popping this here to watch later.


View: https://youtu.be/jXDFFiJycb8?si=sqTwK4LgayKaIRde