Gender again. Sorry!

[monkers]

Ah Ok. so you have difficulty understanding words when they are put in a different order to what you think they say?


That is the transcript of the clip. Unfortunately, the most important part of that speech is probably the 30 or so seconds before and after it. This clip isn't really coherent. She doesn't say to bury differences with white supremacists. What she does say doesn't really make sense, although I suspect she is talking about people who label people on the side of women as right wing white supremacists. There are other clips of her speaking where she fully disowns the Nazis and points out that they were attending a different event.

But you stick to your bubble and interpret out of context 30 second clips to your heart's content.

KJK is not on the side of women. She is a paid by an American far right evangelist groups to promote views that go against established women's rights - and unsurprisingly they hate the LGBT community. These are the facts that her words are reflecting.

You can defend her if her beliefs coincide with your own, but the presentation that she is a defender of women's rights doesn't wash.

She believes that women should make lots of babies and stay home to look after them. She believes that abortion is a sin. She believes that women should not be sex workers even when that is their choice. She want to ban all pornography. You might agree with her, and that's your prerogative, but taking choices away from women is not being a defender of women's rights however you want to dice and slice it.

 

[icowden]

KJK is not on the side of women. She is a paid by an American far right evangelist groups to promote views that go against established women's rights - and unsurprisingly they hate the LGBT community. These are the facts that her words are reflecting.

You can defend her if her beliefs coincide with your own, but the presentation that she is a defender of women's rights doesn't wash.

She believes that women should make lots of babies and stay home to look after them. She believes that abortion is a sin. She believes that women should not be sex workers even when that is their choice. She want to ban all pornography. You might agree with her, and that's your prerogative, but taking choices away from women is not being a defender of women's rights however you want to dice and slice it.

I don't disagree with any of that. I do disagree with using out of context clips to try to present someone as a white supremacist or racist. Let's attack KJK for her *actual* views without concocting fake ones.

 

[monkers]

I don't disagree with any of that. I do disagree with using out of context clips to try to present someone as a white supremacist or racist. Let's attack KJK for her *actual* views without concocting fake ones.

She says she is not a feminist. Feminist groups decline to work with her. She has worked with far right groups in the USA and is known to be funded by them. She denies doing so, but there are video clips on youtube of her doing so.

You seem to find her believable, that's a matter for you, but please don't be surprised to hear that bigotry and lies are often bedfellows.

 

[Unkraut]

... who believe that their beliefs without evidence ...

Oy that's what people like to accuse me of. 🙂

Actually few people believe things without evidence except perhaps those who have outsourced their thinking to social media.

 

[Ian H]

Ah Ok. so you have difficulty understanding words when they are put in a different order to what you think they say?

Weasel words so she can plausibly claim 'that's not what I meant'. It's a well-known technique and people still fall for it.


And who uses 'white suprematist' as a general term of abuse?

 

[monkers]

Oy that's what people like to accuse me of. 🙂

Actually few people believe things without evidence except perhaps those who have outsourced their thinking to social media.

There's truth in that. I don't believe there is anything like enough evidence for the existence of a God. That does not mean that there is absolutely no value to any of biblical teaching, but that there is no basis to grant it legal or moral authority.

As for social media ~ it's a fool's paradise.

 

[AuroraSaab]

And who uses 'white suprematist' as a general term of abuse?

You, amongst a few others on here.

It doesn't, you're right. Just the 'right-wing' and 'white supremacists' (harmless folk, obv).

This is the second time Multitool has posted Aiden Comerford's clip. We had the same discussion in June.

I don't think it says much about the quality of your arguments if the best you can offer is obsessive repostings of an out of context clip of KJK. Especially when you've platformed nonce adjacent cartoonists, and India 'Let's build a wall to keep the immigrants out' Willoughby.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Meanwhile, in the actual grown up world of women's rights, we have stuff like this to contend with.

Female boxer withdraws from fight at the last minute when her coach gets a text telling him her opponent is a biological male:

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/sports/...lle?partageApp=rcca_appmobile_appinfo_android

Reckless of the organisers not to inform the athlete of the other fighter's status. Prioritising inclusion over fairness and the safety of women athletes:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releas...th roughly uniform,with time and with purpose.

"But even with roughly uniform levels of fitness, the males' average power during a punching motion was 162% greater than females', with the least-powerful man still stronger than the most powerful woman".

 

[Ian H]

You, amongst a few others on here.

I used it quite specifically, not as a term of general abuse.

 

[Deleted member 159]

There was a pool(billiards) competition final in Wales recently.

The women player refused to play the man, packed her cue in the case and walked off .

Good for her sticking to the principles of women only in their sport

 

[monkers]

There was a pool(billiards) competition final in Wales recently.

The women player refused to play the man, packed her cue in the case and walked off .

Good for her sticking to the principles of women only in their sport

When you claim that a trans woman has a retained physical advantage over another woman in a frame of pool, it gets a bit embarrassing for women actually. Pool is not an elite sport; it's a pub game.

 

[icowden]

When you claim that a trans woman has a retained physical advantage over another woman in a frame of pool, it gets a bit embarrassing for women actually.

I'm inclined to agree with you. I can't see what relevance gender has to a game of Pool or Snooker even if it were an elite sport.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Ignoring arguments about height and reach, there are separate competitions for women in pool and billiards for the same reason there are separate competitions in darts and chess. And why there are scholarships and opportunities in STEM subjects aimed just at women.

It's to encourage participation from women in areas/sports where they are underrepresented, to give the game/sport/subject a higher profile, and to encourage girls to take up the sport by seeing women in competitions rather than just men.

As for being a pub game. That's not the point. Women deserve fairness and opportunities in all areas/sports/games and at all levels, not just elite sports.

 

[AndyRM]

There will no doubt be some point made about break/shot power or reach if you're taller, none of which actually makes a difference.

I can see her point and I suppose it's the only way she could have made it stand out because realistically only a real pool enthusiast would have known about this, or a Daily Mail reader. That said, playing the game and winning or losing then speaking up in a post match interview would probably have gained as much attention.

 

[monkers]

Ignoring arguments about height and reach, there are separate competitions for women in pool and billiards for the same reason there are separate competitions in darts and chess. And why there are scholarships and opportunities in STEM subjects aimed just at women.

It's to encourage participation from women in areas/sports where they are underrepresented, to give the game/sport/subject a higher profile, and to encourage girls to take up the sport by seeing women in competitions rather than just men.

As for being a pub game. That's not the point. Women deserve fairness and opportunities in all areas/sports/games and at all levels, not just elite sports.

STEM argument is a complete non-argument, apart from the fact that it has little to do with sport. The arguments around needing competition for women to play chess are at least spurious - and this woman happens to think that preventing trans women from playing chess with women if insulting to women - it makes us look pathetic.

The FIA has just released it's own trans inclusion policy. Trans people are included in motor sport. I'm in touch with a former learner of mine. She now races with a team - an all women team, but a team that competes against other teams which are typically all male. She doesn't want a separate women's competition. She doesn't want to win on the basis of being the best driver in a lesser series, she wants to win on her own terms, against all other drivers in the same class (of car and competition). Is that not her right?