Gender again. Sorry!

[monkers]

considering this topic is already full of men who transitioned and then they joined the womens classes and dominated there, please share at least one example of men who transitioned and they joined a womens class and didn't dominate. You will find that they will all perform significantly higher then they would do in the mens class. Hence why the IOC amongst others based on evidence and science changed their position about allowing born biological born males to compete in womens classes after transition.

I don't feel the need to meet your demands. Whenever you write, it comes from a position of bias. We need to build communities that include all people, otherwise we have cliques rather than communities. When I write it supports inclusion. I think people are becoming increasingly tired of divisive people.

 

[monkers]

Sod inclusion, when it interferes with women's rights.

The science is there for all to see.
Nobody male in swimming, swaps to women's racing, thrashes all records first year

Weightlifting, male joins takes all records by country mile

Football, male plays on women's team, seriously injures woman

The list goes on and on.

Males are statistically taller, heavier, stronger, faster. Having them in womens sport destroys it

Never mind the science, prejudice is always right.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Inclusion doesn't trump everything else. It doesn't trump safety, privacy, or fairness. There are times when rights or desires clash and not everybody gets to get what they want. Your demand for inclusion comes at a cost to women and girls.

 

[multitool]

It does trump the fantasy threat of marauding trans women banging at the door of your safe space like a scene out of Thriller

 

[Bromptonaut]

Inclusion doesn't trump everything else. It doesn't trump safety, privacy, or fairness. There are times when rights or desires clash and not everybody gets to get what they want. Your demand for inclusion comes at a cost to women and girls.

Which is what is meant upthread about courts having to do a balancing exercise.

Sport where strength etc are a factor, particularly at a professional or elite level clearly needs protection although I suspect in reality the numbers of men crossing the divide to play as women are small. Sitting around by the canal as an amateur hoping for a coarse fish to bite less so.

You know what I think about the rest.

 

[monkers]

Inclusion doesn't trump everything else. It doesn't trump safety, privacy, or fairness. There are times when rights or desires clash and not everybody gets to get what they want. Your demand for inclusion comes at a cost to women and girls.

Yet another reminder - blanket bans are unlawful. How many times does it need saying?

 

[Deleted member 159]

It does trump the fantasy threat of marauding trans women banging at the door of your safe space like a scene out of Thriller

It's been insidious until recently.

Now people and government sporting bodies are reversing the creep.

 

[Deleted member 159]

Sport where strength etc are a factor, particularly at a professional or elite level clearly needs protection

All levels, budding young athletes can miss out on sponsorship, scholarships by being knocked down the results list by male competitors.

Upto around 12 years, boys are approximately equal to girls in many sports. Which by coincidence is generally before male puberty kicks in.

I know why don't we castrate all those young boys who show sporting promise, so they can do well in the women's division 🤔

 

[AuroraSaab]

Nobody has asked for blanket bans for trans people. It remains lawful to exclude people on the basis of their sex (or age, or religion, or sexuality etc etc) in limited situations. It doesn't have to be done on a case by case, one individual person at a time basis.

Sport where strength etc are a factor, particularly at a professional or elite level clearly needs protection although I suspect in reality the numbers of men crossing the divide to play as women are small.

Women and girls deserve fairness and safety at all sporting levels, recreational or elite. This is just more of 'It's not important to me so it shouldn't matter to anyone'. Fairness has nothing to do with numbers. If Lance Armstrong was only drugged in 2 races, and came last in both, he still had an unfair advantage.

Sitting around by the canal as an amateur hoping for a coarse fish to bite less so.

Recreational fishing is not the issue as you well know.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Women and girls deserve fairness and safety at all sporting levels, recreational or elite. This is just more of 'It's not important to me so it shouldn't matter to anyone'. Fairness has nothing to do with numbers. If Lance Armstrong was only drugged in 2 races, and came last in both, he still had an unfair advantage

Absolutely they do. You and I will have to disagree on how we achieve that promised land.

But you know that.

As to coarse fishing you are, once again, suggesting I'm a malign actor who knowingly fibs for advantage. I genuinely thought the issue affected amateurs in low level competition.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

I don't feel the need to meet your demands. Whenever you write, it comes from a position of bias. We need to build communities that include all people, otherwise we have cliques rather than communities. When I write it supports inclusion. I think people are becoming increasingly tired of divisive people.

Nonsense, i asked you amongst other things to explain why you know better then the IOC (International Sports commitee) But you really HATE FACTS when you can't abuse and twist them in your favor. So it has nothing to do with meeting my demands but everything but the lack of an answer other than, the IOC used scientific and evidence from the field to come back to their earlier decision to let trans-persons in the women only classes and only allow them under certain conditions.
Thus the claim you made before that what i wrote was either bias or assumptions are simply not true. You are wrong.

 

[Deleted member 159]

coarse fishing

It wasn't coarse fishing, it was beach/sea fishing. There is an element of strength coming into play. Further you can cast out to sea, benefits the fisherman, to larger fish. That in turn, strength plays a part on landing bigger fish

 

[classic33]

Nobody has asked for blanket bans for trans people. It remains lawful to exclude people on the basis of their sex (or age, or religion, or sexuality etc etc) in limited situations. It doesn't have to be done on a case by case, one individual person at a time basis.

Recreational fishing is not the issue as you well know.

One problem is that all clubs have to rewrite the clubs constitution, and their rules. The ban covers every level, not just the top level as you implied.

As said, at the local level the managing and running of these groups is done on a volunteer basis. Some of those volunteers are now stepping down, rather than go through the trouble of redrafting their clubs constitution and rules. Then having to get a copy out to all members, have a vote on both where a majority will not be enough, it has to be the entire membership. Some now looking at forcing women to start their own clubs up.

Now take that level of paperwork and apply it to all local grassroots sports clubs run by volunteers. There's an awful lot that are doing the managing on a volunteer basis.

 

[monkers]

Nonsense, i asked you amongst other things to explain why you know better then the IOC (International Sports commitee) But you really HATE FACTS when you can't abuse and twist them in your favor. So it has nothing to do with meeting my demands but everything but the lack of an answer other than, the IOC used scientific and evidence from the field to come back to their earlier decision to let trans-persons in the women only classes and only allow them under certain conditions.
Thus the claim you made before that what i wrote was either bias or assumptions are simply not true. You are wrong.

This response serves to show the extent of your bias.

I haven't said that I know better than any expert at all. I merely quote the message of the legislature and the judiciary.

It's perfectly clear to me that there are those within and without this place who harbour prejudice.

 

[Deleted member 159]

One problem is that all clubs have to rewrite the clubs constitution, and their rules. The ban covers every level, not just the top level as you implied.

As said, at the local level the managing and running of these groups is done on a volunteer basis. Some of those volunteers are now stepping down, rather than go through the trouble of redrafting their clubs constitution and rules. Then having to get a copy out to all members, have a vote on both where a majority will not be enough, it has to be the entire membership. Some now looking at forcing women to start their own clubs up.

Now take that level of paperwork and apply it to all local grassroots sports clubs run by volunteers. There's an awful lot that are doing the managing on a volunteer basis.

Small price to pay for safeguarding women's division.