Gender again. Sorry!

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An ideology that promotes multilation of children with irreversible surgery and or drugs is definitely evil. Those who facilitate this are evil.

If There's Bad, Good Will Rise Up Against It."

Kelly Kay Keen is defending women's rights in the best way she can.
 

monkers

Legendary Member
An ideology that promotes multilation of children with irreversible surgery and or drugs is definitely evil. Those who facilitate this are evil.

If There's Bad, Good Will Rise Up Against It."

Kelly Kay Keen is defending women's rights in the best way she can.

So you are a pro-lifer then?
 
Women's oppression comes from those doing the oppressing, and not from those who don't.
What's the basis of that oppression though? It's not their gender identity because if it was women could opt out of it simply by saying they were male. They can't. It's because they are biologically female.

It isn't all men oppressing women, therefore the assumptions that trans women as a group must either be collectively oppressing women or otherwise they transition in order to do so are fallacious arguments, unless supported by sound evidence.
That men (the oppressor group) are allowed to opt into the oppressed group (Women) is evidence of male domination in itself. It's patriarchy on steroids for men to oppress women for 10 thousand years and then turn round and say 'We are you and now we want access to the spaces that were set up precisely because you are oppressed by us'.

Nobody says they've transitioned just in order to oppress women further, but more harm to women is the inevitable consequence of saying men can be women and that gender identity should overule sex in law.
 

monkers

Legendary Member
That men (the oppressor group) are allowed to opt into the oppressed group (Women) is evidence of male domination in itself

It is no evidence at all. 'Some' men are oppressors. Unless you can show that those oppressive men are in the trans group, there is no evidence of any such thing. Can you manage to bring evidence to this?
 
We are talking about the structural analysis of the dynamic between classes of people, as you know. You don't need to show that every single white person is an oppressor in order to understand that ethnic minority groups are (overall) in a disadvantageous power relationship with the white majority. It's thus perfectly reasonable that a social club for an ethnic minority should be just for that group. You don't have to admit white people on a case by case basis just because some white people aren't racist.

The fact that men can simply say they are women - and that has been enough to change language, laws, safeguarding - is enough in itself to tell you that as a class it is men that are in the group that oppresses. Individual men don't get to opt out of that analysis of power relationships by saying they aren't men anymore and must be treated as individuals.

This constant theme of yours that everybody must be assessed on an individual basis and there is nothing meaningful to be said about the dynamic between wider groups in society is just a way of engineering access to women's spaces and services by trying to make it a case by case decision thing. It's unworkable. Nobody would tolerate it for any other group except women.
 

monkers

Legendary Member
You don't need to show that every single white person is an oppressor

You absolutely do if you are going to treat the innocent as guilty. There are well-accepted convention rights which must be protected.

It is contemptible to assume that every man is guilty of being something that he is not. Equally it is contemptible to assume that every trans woman of being guilty of something that she is not.

If anyone was not already in doubt that this is not fascism, they'll be in no doubt now.
 
It's not fascism to tell white students they can't join the African heritage students society. Or to tell straight people they can't join a gay and lesbian group. Or to tell an able bodied person not to use the disabled facilities. It wouldn't be fascist for a group for transgender people to exclude non transgender people.

Different groups - including men and including transgender people - are allowed to have stuff just for themselves. It's not treating the innocent as guilty. It is however hyperbolic rubbish of the highest order to call it fascism when you don't get your own way.
 
This is just for over 50's transgender people in Maryland, US. Seems perfectly reasonable, but must be fascism I suppose.

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This constant theme of yours that everybody must be assessed on an individual basis and there is nothing meaningful to be said about the dynamic between wider groups in society is just a way of engineering access to women's spaces and services by trying to make it a case by case decision thing. It's unworkable. Nobody would tolerate it for any other group except women.
The fact that people have to be assessed on an individual/case by case basis is written into UK law.

It allows service providers to make reasonable adjustments based on the needs of the person they are making the adjustments for. A wider view, or more people asking for similar, but differing adjustments may make them realise that's there's people out there whose needs they aren't being fully meeting.

Still waiting on you providing a figure for the number of trans women just getting on with their lives. Your figure of 5,000 is a starting point, so work from that.
 
Who knew there were fascist science groups, boldly advertising they are just for one demographic? I'm guessing they don't cover Biology.

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It's not fascism to tell white students they can't join the African heritage students society. Or to tell straight people they can't join a gay and lesbian group. Or to tell an able bodied person not to use the disabled facilities. It wouldn't be fascist for a group for transgender people to exclude non transgender people.

Different groups - including men and including transgender people - are allowed to have stuff just for themselves. It's not treating the innocent as guilty. It is however hyperbolic rubbish of the highest order to call it fascism when you don't get your own way.
You might be surprised to learn that many facilities, built for disabled people are now used by the able bodied. And most tend to be unisex. Why are disabled people abled to cope, forced to accept even, with unisex facilities. Something you're set against for the able bodied. Are we not entitled to the same rights as you seem to think that you're entitled to?
 

monkers

Legendary Member

Transgender members

Transgender women are welcome to join the WI and to participate in any WI activities in the same way as any other woman. The WI provides women with educational opportunities and the platform to campaign on issues that matter to them and their communities whilst always celebrating what it means to be a woman. Therefore, welcoming transgender women to the WI builds on our ambitions and enriches our membership to ensure we are a place for all women to celebrate who they are and influence positive change in their communities.
 
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