Gender again. Sorry!

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monkers

Legendary Member
70% of trans in prison have committed sexual offences way higher than normal

Transgender people or trans people? How many trans men? How many trans women?

70% of how many?

What sexual offences were committed and in what proportions?

Show evidence for your working.

https://archive.is/2024.02.24-18583...res-70-per-cent-of-transgender-prisoners-are/
View attachment 5543

You would need to see the full breakdown of the stats to analyse these %'s in full and it doesn't seem to be available yet. For example, those with GRC's are recorded in the data for their gender identity, not their birth sex.

Crime stats ... more women are arrested for violence than men. Men are more likely to be victims of assault.


View attachment 5552

So it is. What you missed out though was that these are % of the overall arrests. 55% of overall arrests of women were for violent crime - which tells us nothing about the number of violent crimes committed by women. It could be 500,000 crimes of violence that made up the 55% or it could be 50.

It also tells us nothing about how women's offending compares to men, though I suspect your chart was an attempt to mislead by making it look like women comit more violent crime than men. They don't.

It's clear from the chart I posted that women comit a fraction of recorded violent crime compared to men.


All of a sudden there's a glimmer of understanding.

Now Aurora you are confronted with a new reality. You study the data when you are confronted with an uncomfortable truth about women with a critical eye.

When the data is transgender / trans people, you don't. Instead you propagate propaganda.

Apply that same critical eye to the transgender / trans people data in the same way and what do you see?
 
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Oh ffs. Stop being disingenuous. The data shows that transwomen comit crimes at the same rate as other men. The fact that these men comit numerically fewer violent crimes than non trans identifying men simply because there are fewer of them is irrelevant. So do men in wheelchairs. So do Orthodox Jewish men. So do blind men. Nobody thinks men in wheelchairs should have the option of being placed in a women's prison.

If and when we reach a point where women commit violent and sexual crime at the same rate as transwomen/men then there will be a meaningful discussion to be had about whether prisons should be mixed sex or single sex. We are a long, long way from that point.
 
Oh ffs. Stop being disingenuous. The data shows that transwomen comit crimes at the same rate as other men. The fact that these men comit numerically fewer violent crimes than non trans identifying men simply because there are fewer of them is irrelevant. So do men in wheelchairs. So do Orthodox Jewish men. So do blind men. Nobody thinks men in wheelchairs should have the option of being placed in a women's prison.

If and when we reach a point where women commit violent and sexual crime at the same rate as transwomen/men then there will be a meaningful discussion to be had about whether prisons should be mixed sex or single sex. We are a long, long way from that point.
Can you say where that particular piece of data is, or if it even exists?
 

monkers

Legendary Member
Oh ffs. Stop being disingenuous. The data shows that transwomen comit crimes at the same rate as other men. The fact that these men comit numerically fewer violent crimes than non trans identifying men simply because there are fewer of them is irrelevant. So do men in wheelchairs. So do Orthodox Jewish men. So do blind men. Nobody thinks men in wheelchairs should have the option of being placed in a women's prison.

If and when we reach a point where women commit violent and sexual crime at the same rate as transwomen/men then there will be a meaningful discussion to be had about whether prisons should be mixed sex or single sex. We are a long, long way from that point.


In the first post with the table, I admit I was slightly deliberately naughty.

In the second post I deliberately included the relevant paragraph that helped you notice what I had done.

I then agreed with you that the numbers were as you said they were.

Yes I led you by the nose to the facts. This needs doing because you were propagating propaganda on the transgender / trans data.

Now for the real numbers ... for the year 2021/22 ... England & Wales.

Number of arrests ....................... men ..... 560 694
women ..... 97 990
transgender people ...... unknown
trans people ....... unknown

men .... 560 694 x 0.45 = 252 312
women .... 97 990 x 0.55 = 53 895

So yes we agree incidences of male violence were about 5 times higher. Nobody will be surprised that male violence is a higher number, though many may be surprised that 55% of female arrests are for violence against the person.

Next ...

We can not say that 70% of transgender prisoners have committed sexual or violent crime, though undoubtedly many will have.

In the absence of the official data, it is not acceptable to simply conjure numbers out of thin air. The number is not 70%. The number is unknown.

There is no data that says that trans women offend at the same rates as men. The lies on this have been thoroughly debunked and you know it.

Further we can not simply say that because some people think that the rate is 70% for transgender people, therefore it is the same for trans people, it's clearly nonsense, but conspiracy theorists lap this stuff up to the detriment of those people who are innocent of any crime being committed, subsequently targeted and harmed by those stupid enough to believe what trans haters write in the media or on the internet.
 
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Can you say where that particular piece of data is, or if it even exists?
You could just Google it.
Screenshot_20240228_230153_OneDrive.jpg

Do you think Hindu men should be allowed in women's prisons because not many Hindu men comit crimes?
What if we fit square wheels to them?

Nah. They'd still be men, Dave.
In the first post with the table, I admit I was slightly deliberately naughty.
Lying is more accurate.

We can not say that 70% of transgender prisoners have committed sexual or violent crime, though undoubtedly many will have.
The stats for the crimes of the 268 are available and that's what they show. We don't know about the offences of the 11 with GRC's.
In the absence of the official data, it is not acceptable to simply conjure numbers out of thin air. The number is not 70%. The number is unknown.
Take it up with The Telegraph. Make a complaint to Ofcom if you think you know better.

There is no data that says that trans women offend at the same rates as men. The lies on this have been thoroughly debunked and you know it.
Yes there is. Covered several times in this thread already.
Further we can not simply say that because some people think that the rate is 70% for transgender people, therefore it is the same for trans people, .....
Again, you are avoiding the uncomfortable implications of the stats by pretending there are transgender people and trans people. You're simply trying to do the 'these transwomen are really trans' .... 'but these transwomen aren't' thing. The reverse ferret you've done on this just to avoid the reality of male pattern violence is spectacular.
 
D

Deleted member 121

Guest
Nah. They'd still be men, Dave

:laugh:
 

monkers

Legendary Member
The stats for the crimes of the 268 are available and that's what they show. We don't know about the offences of the 11 with GRC's.

Then it is impossible to support FarmerAndy's claim that 70% of trans prisoners are sentenced for sexual offences. Yet you set out to support him.

I haven't seen the stats for the 268. Kindly provide a link to the official data (not the DT).
 

monkers

Legendary Member
Again, you are avoiding the uncomfortable implications of the stats by pretending there are transgender people and trans people. You're simply trying to do the 'these transwomen are really trans' .... 'but these transwomen aren't' thing. The reverse ferret you've done on this just to avoid the reality of male pattern violence is spectacular.

No fruitloops. You know the truth of this, as you've said so. Transgender prisoners are one cohort. Prisoners who have a GRC are in the cisgender cohort. You can't make the distinction of difference, and then claim they are the same.

I've given the full breakdown of violence between the two sexes and agreed that incidents of male violence is five times higher than for women, so you are talking nonsense.
 
You really can't help yourself but be pompous and abusive all in the same breath. You're really not selling the idea of men in women's spaces at all well.

Why don't you ask the Telegraph for the data source when you ring to complain? I'm taking them at their word as I reckon their journalists have a better grasp of data than you do.

Oh look. Scarlett Blake's horrific murder will be recorded as having been done by a woman. Women who murder are relatively rare, compared to men, so even one male crime like this recorded as a female crime, starts to skew the statistics.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/28/trans-cat-killer-scarlet-blake-crimes-will-recorded/
 

monkers

Legendary Member
You really can't help yourself but be pompous and abusive all in the same breath. You're really not selling the idea of men in women's spaces at all well.

Why don't you ask the Telegraph for the data source when you ring to complain? I'm taking them at their word as I reckon their journalists have a better grasp of data than you do.

Oh look. Scarlett Blake's horrific murder will be recorded as having been done by a woman. Women who murder are relatively rare, compared to men, so even one male crime like this recorded as a female crime, starts to skew the statistics.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/28/trans-cat-killer-scarlet-blake-crimes-will-recorded/

I can't open DT links. Don't wish to pay to access shite - that's for sure.
 
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