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Gender again. Sorry!
- Thread starter theclaud
- Start date
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AuroraSaab
Legendary Member
Dave, it was you who wanted to go down the guilt by association route with me and Andy. The Kill Terfs men have more in common with you than they do with him but you seem to baulk at being put on their team when you were happy to put me on his.
The arguments stand on their own merit, regardless of who is making them.
The arguments stand on their own merit, regardless of who is making them.
multitool
Shaman
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Deleted member 121
Guest
It was you that came flying in and jumped in on a question I had for icow. Which you then proceeded to misrepresent the lovely ladies in my immediate family with büllshit and now you're continuing the charade with more cack misrepresentation. You do far more damage to your credibility in your views than you realise.
I literally only have one thing left to say to you.
Get stuffed...
I'm out.
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AuroraSaab
Legendary Member
That's bs, Dave. I asked you to address the specifics rather than generalities and your response was to say 'Look who agrees with you' as if that's an argument in itself. Nobody knows what you think on the specifics because like so many on here you seem scared to say in case somebody thinks you're not a trans ally or God forbid, a transphobe.
AuroraSaab
Legendary Member
Literally six people have left this thread because of you
How many have left the forum because of the atmosphere you create?
(You'll be saying seven now surely now Dave's taken the hump?)
icowden
Legendary Member
I really don't understand your line of thought here. I have constantly argued that we should be having open discussion about these issues and that it is unfair to polarise and accuse one group of people of being "TERFS" etc without considering their viewpoint. It is not acceptable that people send death threats and rape threats to a famous author who was a victim of domestic violence and has a view, any more than it is acceptable to send them to India Willoughby because she is a somewhat loud mouthed and unpleasant transwoman.
Both "sides" in this are guilty of having people who overreach and go to far, whether it's extremists associating with KJK or trans groups trying to "cancel" events or people, or stifle discussion at universities.
It seems to matter that I am accused of being firmly in the GC or transphobe camp, despite having a somewhat middle ground opinion, which I have stated many times. For the record I have no issue with transmen or transwomen, but I do think we should have care around prescribing medical interventions to children and young people, and I do think that we should more strongly look in to the risks associated with allowing transwomen into women's spaces and ensure that safeguards are in place. I think we should be looking much more firmly into the motives of male prisoners / offenders suddenly deciding that they are women. Mostly, I think we should be openly discussing these things and listening to people rather than trying to silence people.
icowden
Legendary Member
So where is the evidence-led approach that suggests that hormones and surgical intervention is safe and promotes quality of life with minimal side effects? Where is the evidence-led approach that suggests gender is assigned at birth but can be changed? Where is the evidence-led approach that "being trans" is an innate part of being and not a psychological dissociation which results from a mental health issue?
It's odd that we are have very different points of view given that we both like balanced, evidence led approaches.
No-one has suggested victimising minorities, only that consideration should be given as to where there are conflicts between the rights of two different minorities.
multitool
Shaman
AuroraSaab
Legendary Member
You're still here and that's what really matters.
multitool
Shaman
The end result of you voicing your "legitimate concerns" is trans people getting victimised.
Personally I don't think you intend this at all. I don't think your intention is to be mean. I do think you aren't seeing the bigger social picture.
It doesn't matter to me whether the reason for trans people being trans is a mental illness or not. What matters is a small group of people being able to live difficult lives as best they can without other, completely unconnected people poking their noses in and making difficult lives worse.
The issue of trans care, especially for children, is complicated, and the care itself is nascent. What this means is that to some extent it is experimental as therapies are developed. What is not helpful is for health care for trans children to be thrust into the crucible of culture wars.
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multitool
Shaman
You've literally just managed to get a seventh person to leave the thread and you are trying to make it about me.
I'm starting to wonder if this might be a pathology.
AuroraSaab
Legendary Member
If I @ you 200 times in a year, then you can call it a pathology.
multitool
Shaman
I wonder if that might possibly be another of your ridiculous exagerrations
I almost never @ anyone, and usually when I do it's because I'm responding to a previous post of theirs which was, in itself, a reply to me, but I've forgotten to insert a quote and cannot be bothered to go back and edit my post.
I generally don't go out of my way to summon you to any thread. You have this remarkable ability to drain the joy out of literally everything.
AndyRM
Elder Goth
Personally I don't think it's about particular posters, but rather the tedious way this always comes back to the same few issues/points.
There have been some more interesting discussions along the way but they peter out and we're back to the usual which has been done ad infinitum.
A pal of mine is currently involved in a spat with Glinner, so it'll be interesting to see what her actual experience of the process in reporting transphobic hate ends up looking like. It's caused her a fair amount of distress and concern with the inevitable Twitter pile on which began last week. She's been accused of all sorts without any justification, but she doesn't really have the resources to go as far as court, though the advice she's received is that she'd have a very strong case.
There have been some more interesting discussions along the way but they peter out and we're back to the usual which has been done ad infinitum.
A pal of mine is currently involved in a spat with Glinner, so it'll be interesting to see what her actual experience of the process in reporting transphobic hate ends up looking like. It's caused her a fair amount of distress and concern with the inevitable Twitter pile on which began last week. She's been accused of all sorts without any justification, but she doesn't really have the resources to go as far as court, though the advice she's received is that she'd have a very strong case.
