Gender again. Sorry!

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multitool

Shaman
Personally I don't think it's about particular posters, but rather the tedious way this always comes back to the same few issues/points.

Almost certainly that is why most people stay away from this thread...but this thread is unusual in that seven posters have cited the same person as the reason for them leaving.

And yes, the thread does spiral round back to the same entrenched views. It's sort of inevitable in that there is a sort of religious fervour to the GC cult. It's beyond anything logical, rational or empirical.

Probably the mirror image of the GC cultists, those on the most extreme end of trans activism, are similar in many ways but there are none of those people here as far as I can tell.
 

AuroraSaab

Legendary Member
You've resurrected the dormant thread 3 or 4 times yourself in order to go over the same stuff. You're as guilty as anybody else of flogging dead horses.
 

icowden

Legendary Member
The end result of you voicing your "legitimate concerns" is trans people getting victimised.
So we shouldn't have any discussion in case trans people get victimised. Should we also shut down public discussions? Which discussions is it OK to have?

It doesn't matter to me whether the reason for trans people being trans is a mental illness or not. What matters is a small group of people being able to live difficult lives as best they can without other, completely unconnected people poking their noses in and making difficult lives worse.
And I think most people would agree with that. Unfortunately a group of loud and obnoxious people started insisting that using sensible language was somehow anti-trans, that questioning inclusion in women's sport was anti-trans, that questioning the ability of transwomen to access women's refuges was anti-trans. That not allowing adolescent children to have access to hormone blockers was anti-trans.

Fault sits on both sides, and is largely those that want silence whilst pretending that open discussion* will magically make people commit suicide who have built the problem up in the first place.

A respected author tweeted a message
"‘People who menstruate.’ I’m sure there used to be a word for those people. Someone help me out. Wumben? Wimpund? Woomud? ".
The message was simply to highlight the silliness of not using the word "women" in case it upset someone.

she followed this up by controversially stating-
“If sex isn’t real, there’s no same-sex attraction. If sex isn’t real, the lived reality of women globally is erased. I know and love trans people, but erasing the concept of sex removes the ability of many to meaningfully discuss their lives. It isn’t hate to speak the truth,” she tweeted. “The idea that women like me, who’ve been empathetic to trans people for decades, feeling kinship because they’re vulnerable in the same way as women—i.e., to male violence—‘hate’ trans people because they think sex is real and has lived consequences—is a nonsense.”

She continued, “I respect every trans person’s right to live any way that feels authentic and comfortable to them. I’d march with you if you were discriminated against on the basis of being trans. At the same time, my life has been shaped by being female. I do not believe it’s hateful to say so.”
It's hard to see how that equates to her being a transphobe GC who hates trans people.
I cannot see how people can read this eloquent explainer and yet still heap abuse upon a woman who writes books:-
https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/...ns-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

What @AuroraSaab has said echoes what JKRowling has said - and repeatedly she has been told that she is wrong. That she is the only woman who thinks like this. We have been told by HMS Dave that none of the women in his family agree therefore it's rubbish. Isn't it possible that women have different opinions, and that their concerns should be listened to?
All I’m asking – all I want – is for similar empathy, similar understanding, to be extended to the many millions of women whose sole crime is wanting their concerns to be heard without receiving threats and abuse.
Why is that wrong?

*see also refusing hormone treatment, puberty blockers, surgery etc
 

multitool

Shaman
So we shouldn't have any discussion in case trans people get victimised. Should we also shut down public discussions? Which discussions is it OK to have?

It depends on the honesty of the so-called 'debate'. Remember: it is people's lives you are 'debating' for kicks.

A respected author tweeted a message

The message was simply to highlight the silliness of not using the word "women" in case it upset someone.

The "people who menstruate" thing was a classic example of seizing upon something and distorting it.

The phrase "people who menstruate" was not in general use. It was in a specific context and used to be inclusive of trans men.

The GCs will start with this idiotic notion of "women being erased" at the mere whisper of a very specific use in a specific context for a specific reason of something other than the word 'wonan'.
 

multitool

Shaman
You've resurrected the dormant thread 3 or 4 times yourself in order to go over the same stuff.

Every thread is dormant until somebody posts on it, you absolute spoon.

Do we all have to pass the Aurora test of when a thread is officially dormant? What is it? 6 hours? A day? Four days?
 

AuroraSaab

Legendary Member
You can't moan about the thread being repetitive when you've resurrected it yourself with sub topics we've already gone over 10 times.

It would be helpful if you had anything constructive to offer as a way of resolving the points of contention but I don't recall you coming up with a single useful solution.
 

CXRAndy

Veteran
Multi

These questions are to do with binary sex male and female.

Do you agree there should be single sex changing facilities? If not, why?

Do you agree there should be single sex sporting events to ensure girls/women's sport is encouraged? If not why?

Do you agree there should be single sex prisons for men and women? If not why?

Do you agree that patients should if requested be cared by same sex carers? if not why?

Do you agree that women's refuge centres are single sex, no males at all? If not why?
 

CXRAndy

Veteran
France upper senate are recommending the abolition of puberty blockers and surgery for minors.
 

AuroraSaab

Legendary Member
Ditto you.

That's simply not true, is it? I've frequently suggested the following:

Third spaces: Men, Women, gender neutral.
Protected women's category plus Open category in sport.
Say 'Women and transmen' instead of vagina owners etc.
Better mental health care for children with body dysphoria rather than puberty blockers.
Separate wing in men's prisons for transwomen prisoners or place them on the vulnerable wing.
Separate provision of domestic violence or rape centres for trans people.

I haven't seen one suggestion from you.
 

AuroraSaab

Legendary Member
It's a report compiled by one political party who plan on bringing a bill to senate. It follows on from the French National Academy of Medicine publishing a document suggesting a more cautious approach to child gender medicine with more emphasis on a multi disciplinary approach.
 

multitool

Shaman
Seems unlikely that people would abandon a whole forum because of one thread, that some of them never posted on anyway. Especially when they still post over on main CC. I feel there must be something else but can't quite put my finger on it.

Looks like HMSDave abandoned the whole forum, Aurora.

Can't quite put my finger on why.
 

AuroraSaab

Legendary Member
Obviously due to the interaction we had today.
I'm sorry he's done that. The forum is diminished when sensible members like Dave leave. Shame so many have left in the last year or reduced their contributions.
 
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