Gender again. Sorry!

[AndyRM]

Eddie used to say he was a transvestite. Nobody seemed to mind much because he never claimed anything else.

Now he says he's a woman and he uses female facilities. (Except when it comes to acting, where he's male and he takes male parts).

You seem to be saying transvestites and trans identifying men are the same thing tbh. Transvestites have certainly been around for a long time. The extra claims, not so much.

As you don't like the Daily Record, here's the BBC reporting on the trans identifying murderer, Alex Stewart, being charged with sexually assaulting a woman he was imprisoned with.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4glne43101o

No, I'm not.

Carry on reading things into what I'm saying though.

 

[AuroraSaab]

You used Eddie Izzard as an example of transgender people being around for a long time, but for decades he said he was a transvestite. I don't see how he does anything other than undermine your claim.

 

[AndyRM]

You used Eddie Izzard as an example of transgender people being around for a long time, but for decades he said he was a transvestite. I don't see how he does anything other than undermine your claim.

It was literally a different poster who brought them into the thread... All I did was point out that they're a mainstream example of gender non conformity, regardless of whatever language they used at the time.

 

[CXRAndy]

You cant now say gender non conformity.

It was regularly spouted. transwomen are women, transvestites/cross dressers are completely different.

All it is, is like a drug addict, start with cannabis, end up on cocaine, by not controlling behaviour

Mental issues just get worse the more you facilitate their mental issue.

 

[AndyRM]

You cant now say gender non conformity.

It was regularly spouted. transwomen are women, transvestites/cross dressers are completely different.

All it is, is like a drug addict, start with cannabis, end up on cocaine, by not controlling behaviour

Mental issues just get worse the more you facilitate their mental issue.

I know this is almost certainly pointless, but do you actually know, or have you met anyone who is trans? Or any kind of non conforming person?

Because what you're being told to think by social media and inflammatory newspaper articles is so, so wide of the mark.

 

[CXRAndy]

Maybe you could tell us, is this man a transvestite or a transwoman

 

[mickle]

I know this is almost certainly pointless, but do you actually know, or have you met anyone who is trans? Or any kind of non conforming person?

Because what you're being told to think by social media and inflammatory newspaper articles is so, so wide of the mark.

FYI, I'm gender non-conforming. Yesterday I hung some laundry and made dinner

 

[AndyRM]

Oh, cool, casual sexism and a picture without any kind of context.

Way to go fellas. And people wonder why nobody bothers with this thread.

 

[AuroraSaab]

It was literally a different poster who brought them into the thread... All I did was point out that they're a mainstream example of gender non conformity, regardless of whatever language they used at the time.

When Eddie said he was a man who wore stereotypically women's clothes he was an example of male non conformity.
Now he says he's a woman, he isn't non conforming. In fact he conforms to the sexualised stereotypes of 'woman' that women have tried to escape for years.

It's the claiming to be the other sex - with all the demands that claim entails - that is the problem. That and telling non conforming and gay kids they might be trans because they don't have stereotypical interests.

Mickle is rightly pointing out that you can only talk about people being gender non conforming if you have arbitrary ideas of what males and females should be like to begin with.
I don't think girls who like football are gender non conforming because I don't think football is a boy's thing.

People don't bother with this thread because a couple of people made it their business to call everybody who didn't agree with them c#nts, d#ckheads, fascists, and Nazis - with the intention of detering people from posting.


The man in the photo is Matt Rattley, a lecturer at Oxford Uni. I have no idea if he calls himself a woman or if he uses women's facilities.
I think it's unlikely that wearing huge prosthetic breasts to work would be tolerated if he wasn't making some claim about his identity though.

 

[AndyRM]

When Eddie said he was a man who wore stereotypically women's clothes he was an example of male non conformity.
Now he says he's a woman, he isn't non conforming. In fact he conforms to the sexualised stereotypes of 'woman' that women have tried to escape for years.

It's the claiming to be the other sex - with all the demands that claim entails - that is the problem. That and telling non conforming and gay kids they might be trans because they don't have stereotypical interests.

Mickle is rightly pointing out that you can only talk about people being gender non conforming if you have arbitrary ideas of what males and females should be like to begin with.
I don't think girls who like football are gender non conforming because I don't think football is a boy's thing.

People don't bother with this thread because a couple of people made it their business to call everybody who didn't agree with them c#nts, d#ckheads, fascists, and Nazis - with the intention of detering people from posting.


The man in the photo is Matt Rattley, a lecturer at Oxford Uni. I have no idea if he calls himself a woman or if he uses women's facilities.
I think it's unlikely that wearing huge prosthetic breasts to work would be tolerated if he wasn't making some claim about his identity though.

Unless things have changed, I'm pretty sure Izzard says they're gender fluid but uses feminine pronouns. Could be wrong about that.

Mickle isn't pointing anything out, he made a casually sexist post which apparently is cool in your book.

Multitool and monkers/N haven't been around in a while, so we're left with a void of a few people agreeing that transgenderism is a scourge and, well, pretty much me who disagrees.

I agree with you about football. It's not a "boys" thing, but that's very much the perception, even in countries where the women's teams are arguably more successful than the men's.

As for Matt Rattley, I have no idea who that is, but a brief search seems to suggest a lot of social media traction confirming exactly the kind of obsession with an outlier.

 

[icowden]

Multitool and monkers/N haven't been around in a while, so we're left with a void of a few people agreeing that transgenderism is a scourge and, well, pretty much me who disagrees.

I pop in occasionally to occupy the reasonable middle ground :-)

I saw this in the Eye recently which amused me:

Hilary Cass calls for trans understanding
(by Our Trans Correspondent Jen Derr-Fluid)

After appearing on Sunday's Laura Kuenssberg show, Dr Hilary Cass has been accused by both sides of the trans debate of "toxic reasonableness".

This followed her plea for mutual understanding and consideration from all parties. Said an anti-trans lobbyist, "Her offensive moderation shows she clearly wants all female prisoners to be assaulted by lunatic men wearing wigs wrongly sent to a women's prison".

A pro-trans lobbyist countered "By not agreeing with everything we say, Dr Cass obviously wants the entire trans community to be rounded up, sent to detention camps and then deported".

However there was some common ground between the two sides of the debate, with both agreeing that there was no place for calm and nuanced discussion going forward and that Hilary Cass should be (cont p94)

 

[AuroraSaab]

Unless things have changed, I'm pretty sure Izzard says they're gender fluid but uses feminine pronouns. Could be wrong about that.

He's been calling himself a transwoman for quite a while. He uses women's facilities. Guardian, 2021:

I'm cool with Mickle mocking the basis of gender ideology: if you perform stereotypes associated with one sex you can claim to be that sex. Without stereotypes the whole trans thing collapses.

It was pretty much me facing a barage of abuse on my own on here for quite a while. Even the mildest of support for women got Mudsticks, Spen, and IC, the same abuse. It's funny how many men on here have opinions on the most trivial of things but won't comment on women's rights for fear of offending the men who say they're women. Which is how you know they're actually men of course.

 

[AndyRM]

He's been calling himself a transwoman for quite a while. He uses women's facilities. Guardian, 2021:

View attachment 14786

I'm cool with Mickle mocking the basis of gender ideology: if you perform stereotypes associated with one sex you can claim to be that sex. Without stereotypes the whole trans thing collapses.

It was pretty much me facing a barage of abuse on my own on here for quite a while. Even the mildest of support for women got Mudsticks, Spen, and IC, the same abuse. It's funny how many men on here have opinions on the most trivial of things but won't comment on women's rights for fear of offending the men who say they're women. Which is how you know they're actually men of course.

Fair enough. I hadn't read that article.

Not quite the whole story though, is it?

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/mar/12/eddie-izzard-ive-had-boob-envy-since-my-teens

BTW I appreciate that in the past I've been a d*ckhead on this thread with you, and I apologise.

I still don't think that using casually sexist language is cool. Ever.

 

[AuroraSaab]

We know that the children referred to the Tavistock clinic had disproportionately higher incidence of childhood trauma, including loss of a parent through death. I think this paragraph is actually more likely the whole story. Much more so than Eddie being born a girl in the wrong body:

What is more likely, that him wearing women's clothes is tied to the death of his mum when he was 6, or he is, and always was, innately a woman?

 

[AndyRM]

We know that the children referred to the Tavistock clinic had disproportionately higher incidence of childhood trauma, including loss of a parent through death. I think this paragraph is actually more likely the whole story. Much more so than Eddie being born a girl in the wrong body:

View attachment 14789

What is more likely, that him wearing women's clothes is tied to the death of his mum when he was 6, or he is, and always was, innately a woman?

Have you read the book?

I haven't.