General Election 2024....

[icowden]

At their best showing, Ukip would have had 80 seats under some PR systems, so back then he might have been right in that he possibly could have been deputy PM in a coalition. Not to say that would have lasted more than one term though.

The weird bit, is that I agree with him about the need to overhaul FPTP and the lack of opposition to Hunt's budget. Although I think we need FPTP for different reasons. We have ended up in a state where in many constituencies there is no point voting. All the votes for the candidate who normally gets the majority of the votes don't count. This is exacerbated by the Tories fiddling with the electoral commission and trying to get more favourable boundaries drawn up.

The reason that parties like the Green party find it so hard to make progress is that a vote for them is considered wasted pretty much anywhere other than Brighton. In my constituency the only choice is between Lib Dem or not Lib Dem which equates to Conservative. Any vote not Lib Dem effectively supports the Conservative candidate as the area has been for quite some time a majority Conservative seat. It's no longer considered "safe", but that's taken quite some effort by Dom Raab to achieve.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I've gradually moved to a more pro PR position. It can have the caveat of giving more extreme views a bigger say. As you say though, under FPTP a vote for a small party can end up just being a protest vote (nothing wrong with that in itself obvs). There's no incentive for Lab or Cons to change the system here.

I don't know enough about mainland European history to know how they evolved into having it but they seem mostly happy with it, with the exception of some recent right wing gains.

 

[BoldonLad]

I've gradually moved to a more pro PR position. It can have the caveat of giving more extreme views a bigger say. As you say though, under FPTP a vote for a small party can end up just being a protest vote (nothing wrong with that in itself obvs). There's no incentive for Lab or Cons to change the system here.

I don't know enough about mainland European history to know how they evolved into having it but they seem mostly happy with it, with the exception of some recent right wing gains.

Is there any evidence that they (the populations of the Countries where such situations arose) are not happy with such gains?

 

[All uphill]

I've gradually moved to a more pro PR position. It can have the caveat of giving more extreme views a bigger say. As you say though, under FPTP a vote for a small party can end up just being a protest vote (nothing wrong with that in itself obvs). There's no incentive for Lab or Cons to change the system here.

I don't know enough about mainland European history to know how they evolved into having it but they seem mostly happy with it, with the exception of some recent right wing gains.

I'm all for PR.

I may not agree with the extremes, but effectively denying them a voice seems dangerous to me.

Knowing they could be in a coalition seems to encourage them to be a bit more responsible and actually being in a coalition gives them some accountability.

 

[All uphill]

Is there any evidence that they (the populations of the Countries where such situations arose) are not happy with such gains?

I try to keep up with the news in the Netherlands and see their PR working through real tensions between (broadly) the farming areas and the highly urban areas.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty-seventh_government_of_Israel

 

[AuroraSaab]

Is there any evidence that they (the populations of the Countries where such situations arose) are not happy with such gains?

I suppose they accept them as the price you pay. Perhaps PR encourages a more responsible attitude towards voting. I'm thinking of things like Marine le Pen sometimes doing well in first rounds of the votes but not in the second.

I'm all for PR.
Knowing they could be in a coalition seems to encourage them to be a bit more responsible and actually being in a coalition gives them some accountability.

I think that's probably true. Over here groups can make promises to garner votes that they'll never have to follow through on. Wonder what would have happened if Ukip had 80 seats in 2015.

 

[Ian H]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty-seventh_government_of_Israel

Of course not all PR systems are the same.

 

[albion]

Seems the Tory candidate for in the Greater Manchester mayoral election in May, has defected to Reform UK.
At this rate the far right Reform UK is the new Tory party, the original sinking ship Tory party looking as good as dead.
When will Mogg, the most far right Tory jump ship too? Or will/have they refused him?

 

[Beebo]

Seems the Tory candidate for in the Greater Manchester mayoral election in May, has defected to Reform UK.
At this rate the far right Reform UK is the new Tory party, the original sinking ship Tory party looking as good as dead.
When will Mogg, the most far right Tory jump ship too? Or will/have they refused him?

I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that Mogg would never lower himself to leave the Tory party. Reform are too vulgar for the likes of him.

Of course I could be proven wrong.

 

[albion]

Hard to believe he can sink lower though.

 

[The Crofted Crest]

Apparently from their Twitter page. Now go and have a shower.

 

[albion]

The BBC correction from far right should have been properly corrected.
Extreme territory even if aimed at those with one brain cell.

 

[Beebo]

View attachment 5678
Apparently from their Twitter page. Now go and have a shower.

Staffed by The Monkees.

 

[multitool]

View attachment 5678
Apparently from their Twitter page. Now go and have a shower.

Was reading some polling data earlier.

If current polling is reflected in the GE, Reform will help with the decimation of the Tory party, which is a good thing.

I can't remember the exact figure, but Reform voters are coming almost exclusively from disaffected Tories, and not Labour. It's Northern Gammon that are their base.

The Tories have almost nobody under 50 saying they will vote for them. A statistic I find incredible.