How or Why is an Octopus toy Considered Antisemitic

[winjim]

Just because some people haven't heard of it doesn't mean the association of octopus tentacles with Jews isn't a long standing trope. It clearly is. I doubt GT would know the connotations, but that doesn't mean it isn't a hurtful association for the Jewish community even if this was accidental. There are lots of images/symbols that have negative meanings for some groups that might seem trivial to the rest of us.

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But was anyone hurt by it? I mean beyond performative outrage. Because I'm not Jewish but I am autistic and I'm pretty offended at the weaponisation of what I know is an innocent and useful communication aid for people like me.

 

[AuroraSaab]

In the current situation, in a video about her support for Palestine, I think it was an unfortunate coincidence. It's not as though she were in a room filled with other things, or if it was a video about her environmental stuff. Apart from the sofa they are sitting on, the octopus is the only item in the frame.

Weren't you complaining the other day about Labour going 'full nationalist' for having the union flag on the membership card? You are quick enough to make that association between the national flag and negative connotations but can't seem to see that the same kind of conclusions as yours are being drawn here, albeit likely erroneously. Is anybody hurt by the H and M monkey hoodie ad either? Not really, but I don't think it's performative outrage to acknowledge the negative connotations that such imagery has, accidental or not.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Probably just as well given how heavily criticised VAR is

Only in football....

 

[winjim]

In the current situation, in a video about her support for Palestine, I think it was an unfortunate coincidence. It's not as though she were in a room filled with other things, or if it was a video about her environmental stuff. Apart from the sofa they are sitting on, the octopus is the only item in the frame.

Weren't you complaining the other day about Labour going 'full nationalist' for having the union flag on the membership card? You are quick enough to make that association between the national flag and negative connotations but can't seem to see that the same kind of conclusions as yours are being drawn here, albeit likely erroneously. Is anybody hurt by the H and M monkey hoodie ad either? Not really, but I don't think it's performative outrage to acknowledge the negative connotations that such imagery has, accidental or not.

Why aren't you condemning the actions which I've explicitly told you have caused offence?

 

[matticus]

I don't think it's performative outrage to acknowledge the negative connotations that such imagery has, accidental or not.

Greta wouldn't need to acknowledge the accidental use of the imagery, if it hadn't been for quite a lot of performative outrage.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Why aren't you condemning the actions which I've explicitly told you have caused offence?

Which ones? The Israeli government retaliation? Pretty sure I have already said they were likely to be disproportionate and cutting off water etc is wrong.

Greta wouldn't need to acknowledge the accidental use of the imagery, if it hadn't been for quite a lot of performative outrage.

One person's performative outrage is another person's allusion to a hurtful historical trope I suppose.

 

[winjim]

Not only are you not condemning it, you're justifying it.

 

[winjim]

(I don't want to overstate the level of offence I feel BTW, I'm not exactly losing sleep over it and I know that certain people will find any excuse to dunk on Greta Thunberg, but still, I am pretty offended and although I didn't intend it I am finding this specific situation illustrative of a certain point.)

 

[Rusty Nails]

Greta wouldn't need to acknowledge the accidental use of the imagery, if it hadn't been for quite a lot of performative outrage.

Outrage on social media is very often performative...especially from those with whom we disagree. Without performative outrage the likes of X would wither on the vine.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Outrage on social media is very often performative...especially from those with whom we disagree. Without performative outrage the likes of X would wither on the vine.

On the flip side, Thunberg/XR herself grew on top of ''performative outrage'' amongst other things, so not it doesn't benefit her it suddenly an issue?
I do see an issue and that is what @winjim highlighted perfectly at some point if you apolize for the one thing because it insults someone you insult someone else by removing it. You can't have it both ways

 

[winjim]

On the flip side, Thunberg/XR herself grew on top of ''performative outrage'' amongst other things, so not it doesn't benefit her it suddenly an issue?
I do see an issue and that is what @winjim highlighted perfectly at some point if you apolize for the one thing because it insults someone you insult someone else by removing it. You can't have it both ways

To be clear, I'm not insulted by either the presence or the removal of the octopus. I think Thunberg acted with integrity and consideration in her apology and subsequent reframing of the photograph and many older and supposedly wiser people could learn from her handling of the situation.

I also don't consider her activism to be performative outrage.

Again, who was actually offended by the presence of her disability aid?

 

[AuroraSaab]

Again, who was actually offended by the presence of her disability aid?

Some Jewish people who didn't see it as (or know it was) a disability aid but, seeing it was the only other object visible in a video about Palestine, felt it was a reference to an antisemitic trope. Just like some black people and the hoodie ad.

You feel justified in feeling 'pretty offended' but can't see that Jews and black people, who have had a century of these allusions, might find it possibly deliberately insensitive to have an octopus in a Palestine video or a black child in a hoodie that calls him a monkey.

 

[winjim]

Some Jewish people who didn't see it as (or know it was) a disability aid but, seeing it was the only other object visible in a video about Palestine, felt it was a reference to an antisemitic trope. Just like some black people and the hoodie ad.

You feel justified in feeling 'pretty offended' but can't see that Jews and black people, who have had a century of these allusions, might find it possibly deliberately insensitive to have an octopus in a Palestine video or a black child in a hoodie that calls him a monkey.

No I'm asking who, specifically, was offended. Actually rather than performatively. You say 'some Jewish people' but all I've seen is the usual far right nutjobs going after Thunberg as usual following a supposed 'experiment' in twitter ragebait. I don't deny that the octopus had the potential to cause offence, I'm asking whether it actually did.

Again, why have you not condemned the actions which I have said repeatedly have caused offense. Not hypothetical offence but real offence. Because to be honest I find your use of quotes in your second paragraph offensive as well.

And again again again you have resorted to telling me what I feel and have got it utterly wrong. Again.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Which actions are you asking me to condemn? You've never clearly said.

'Pretty offended' is in quotes because it's a quote of your own words, rather than my words. That's how quotes work. If you're talking about you being offended that a toy which GT supposedly uses to help with her autism has been mistakenly taken to be an allusion to an antisemitic stereotype, I think it's fair to ask why you feel justified in feeling 'pretty offended' by this (your words) but others aren't by the possible allusion in the first place. These are times of heightened tension and sensitivity, and even if this was a genuine accident, it's not performative outrage when people have had a hundred years of these stereotypes and think 'Here we go again'.

 

[theclaud]

Just because some people haven't heard of it doesn't mean the association of octopus tentacles with Jews isn't a long standing trope. It clearly is. I doubt GT would know the connotations, but that doesn't mean it isn't a hurtful association for the Jewish community even if this was accidental. There are lots of images/symbols that have negative meanings for some groups that might seem trivial to the rest of us.

"Tentacles"