Israel / Palestine

[cookiemonster]

I think about i week ago i posted quite a lot about palestinians(the one that don't want to be associated with Hamas) and somehow that get the Israel link too or just no response at all. It's almost like poeple don't want to see there is two sides or in this case rather 3 sides to the story. (i count Isreal as one side because they don't oppress opinions in the way Hamas does. No i'm not saying their ''freedom of speech'' is comparable to here, they just don't put an bullet trough your head like Hamas does, or is rumored to be doing. Considering the death don't talk and the oppressed also don't)
So yes if i would be posting about how terrible Isreal is just like the rest i would probably get more likes, but it feel wrong too, i mean i don't beleive terririst should rule the world. why should i then root for a ''palestian cause that for all of it's existence mostly piggy backs on the support of terrorist or terrorist regimes and the UN. I sincerely hope that after this war there will be a way to give both sides what they want but to paint Isreal is ruthless murderers or worse doesn't stick with me.
And yes i said before and i will say again, i'm sure more then enough palestinians do not or will not longer support Hamas if they realize they can say ''Hamas sucks without repercursions''., Partly i think we already seen that, judging by hamas words(technically those either ex-hamas, Hamas affliated etc. spokepersons) which come down to Palestinians love to martyr themselves(in a few variants), that partly didn't go according to plan, i think they expected every civilian to pick up weapons and fight similar to the siege of Ukraine in the beginning of Russia's invasion.
But it turns out after reading Isreal's flyers, they loved to live just a bit more.

I agree that similarly Isreal's approach isn't to be approached without criticism either, only on this forum i feel it's either just about comparing Isreal to Hitler himself or nothing at all.
While criticism on isreal is justified i don;t thin comparing them to mass killers is, fair.
Similarly i think that if we are then pointing fingers that the UN's role should be criticised too, and no i don't feel that is pro isreal i think that should be a general concern. As the UN has the abilty to withdraw/suspend/etc. things they supply but they didn't and the result is 200km+ of terror tunnels funded from money intended to help the same people they don't even have a bomb shelter.





My selection has nothing to do with ''toxic soup'' or whatever but i really don't lose a night sleep about what you or anyone else thinks of me. Anyway i said in an earlier post just search in pallywood, so that's just what i did.(this where on off the first video's that popped up)
Yes you might come across injuries that are fake but then turned out not to be fake it is an information war,(or better said this is the information war part of the war) However if you see how many different clips there are, how consistent that are made up with the same kind off setup etc. etc. then your once link that shows otherwise doesn't prove anything at all, other than a information war that is at full swing.
If you can show the movie said like appeances are all fake news then it might be something else, but i have seen at least in two different clips a mother that storms off to her child believing(after seeing the footage) that the child is really seriously injured or death, i mean you can watch a 1000 of tricked video's those kind of responses can't be faked.


If you actually read and understand the context you would known it's not about personal appereance(i have no idea how this person looks like so not going to cast judgement on that)
I will try it to explain in terms even you can understand, i was blamed for something said poster does all the time. hence the mirror

View: https://media.giphy.com/media/EsmlrgWNx5v0Y/giphy.gif

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

I'll take that response as an admission that you're just going to believe this crap however much evidence is produced to refute it.
You say you searched 'pallywood', try again and look at the results which refute the validity of the videos you're watching. Alternatively just consider the insult to the thousands who have died which you are perpetuating by sharing this shite. Not sure what the current death toll is, (no doubt you's deny it anyway, hamas propaganda, blah, blah blah) but surely even you could agree that there's enough dead Palestinians to make the faking of videos utterly pointless.
Over and out.

Oh i do look at video's that try to invalidate the Pallywood ones and then to others who check the backgrounds of those again, and surprise surpise indeed some are fake, but a lot of them are also very very real. Hamas is just like Isis they liked polished propaganda video's too. Sadly for Hamas once they come out of their tunnels they find they civil war against the Isreali forces they banked on didn't happen, not gonna pretend they are liked by Gazan's by at least they fell saver around them then around Hamas. They really achieved something since ''07
Has anyone answered the question how much Gazan children died because Hamas stole the proper water supply? or how many Gazan;s where killed because Hamas classed them as Traitors? or should this topic actually been called ''shoot on Isreal?''

This isn't about likes or not seeing both sides to the story. Most posters on this thread seem perfectly capable of doing both.

It is for some and it is an indicator, i personally do not care about those things, but if i see someone claim the most ridiculous things about Israel with a TLDR tone that come down too ''all their won fault'' getting a lot of likes then that says something. I very much doubt your view that most people can see both sides of the story, i think based on hunderds of pages in this topic whatever is posted over/by Palestine if faster believed than whatever Isreal says. Despite 90% of palestinian media comes directly from or closely linked to a terrorist organization that has been killing it's own population and children under the watchfull eye of the UN long before this war.

I'm not traipsing through this thread looking for whatever Palestinian stuff you've posted (that wasn't from a discredited or biased source): I value what little I have left of my sanity. And as you've already said you can't be arsed to repost stuff to back up your claims so I reckon we can park that.

Your faith in some propaganda, whether it be videos or whatever else is touching, but also telling.

I respect your opinion but i don't agree with it. if i post a video article of whatever i use that to show a certain point, action or whatever else it does not has to mean i believe the obvious propaganda, granted i realize now wrongly assumed people are smart enough to think for themselves.
I will add more of a disclaimer in the future.

And on the tiresome Hitler thing, again most people seem to be framing this in terms of genocide or ethnic cleansing, which is exactly what it is. There have been plenty more proponents who have been far more effective in any case.

Well if you go that route, it has to be said from both sides, from all the video's from 7 October one thing was very very clear, they considered Jews as an extra bonus, and made sure to shoot them first. which also makes it very clear that they would have killed every Jew and every person they could find in Isreal if they would have had the chance.

Which was?

You usual you read half, at best then you add an insult like you favorite ''islamophobe'' and then refuse to provide any proof for whatever stupid or out of context or flat out lies you post. So i showed you the mirror and did and will do exactly the same, i will not prove anything to you anymore. not provide you links whatever.. (and yes that applies to you)

 

[cookiemonster]

You usual you read half, at best then you add an insult like you favorite ''islamophobe'' and then refuse to provide any proof for whatever stupid or out of context or flat out lies you post. So i showed you the mirror and did and will do exactly the same, i will not prove anything to you anymore. not provide you links whatever.. (and yes that applies to you)

As usual, you didn't elaborate on what the actual f*ck you are talking about.

Hence why I asked.

 

[Deleted member 159]

Have you f*ck. On both counts.

Doss c*nt.

Oh yes I have, I received free corporate tickets to go and watch England play shite and still silence Scotland's fans . I would not have paid to go. Watching the fools stagger around before and after the match was hilarious. Make no wonder they are always pissed up

£4 for 3 course meal

Best part of the match

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I have a friend

Oh, my sides!
🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

[AndyRM]

Oh i do look at video's that try to invalidate the Pallywood ones and then to others who check the backgrounds of those again, and surprise surpise indeed some are fake, but a lot of them are also very very real. Hamas is just like Isis they liked polished propaganda video's too. Sadly for Hamas once they come out of their tunnels they find they civil war against the Isreali forces they banked on didn't happen, not gonna pretend they are liked by Gazan's by at least they fell saver around them then around Hamas. They really achieved something since ''07
Has anyone answered the question how much Gazan children died because Hamas stole the proper water supply? or how many Gazan;s where killed because Hamas classed them as Traitors? or should this topic actually been called ''shoot on Isreal?''




It is for some and it is an indicator, i personally do not care about those things, but if i see someone claim the most ridiculous things about Israel with a TLDR tone that come down too ''all their won fault'' getting a lot of likes then that says something. I very much doubt your view that most people can see both sides of the story, i think based on hunderds of pages in this topic whatever is posted over/by Palestine if faster believed than whatever Isreal says. Despite 90% of palestinian media comes directly from or closely linked to a terrorist organization that has been killing it's own population and children under the watchfull eye of the UN long before this war.




I respect your opinion but i don't agree with it. if i post a video article of whatever i use that to show a certain point, action or whatever else it does not has to mean i believe the obvious propaganda, granted i realize now wrongly assumed people are smart enough to think for themselves.
I will add more of a disclaimer in the future.



Well if you go that route, it has to be said from both sides, from all the video's from 7 October one thing was very very clear, they considered Jews as an extra bonus, and made sure to shoot them first. which also makes it very clear that they would have killed every Jew and every person they could find in Isreal if they would have had the chance.




You usual you read half, at best then you add an insult like you favorite ''islamophobe'' and then refuse to provide any proof for whatever stupid or out of context or flat out lies you post. So i showed you the mirror and did and will do exactly the same, i will not prove anything to you anymore. not provide you links whatever.. (and yes that applies to you)

It's cute how you insult people's intelligence fairly routinely at the moment, especially when you're using the whole "I'm just holding up a mirror" schtick with Cookie.

Anyway, to pick up on a point relevant to the whole propaganda/media thing...

90% of Palestinian media? You've made that up. I can do that too: I'm pretty confident in saying that near 100% of what comes out of the Israel side is controlled by the IDF, or at least very carefully controlled by sympathetic outlets.

 

[AndyRM]

Oh yes I have, I received free corporate tickets to go and watch England play shite and still silence Scotland's fans . I would not have paid to go. Watching the fools stagger around before and after the match was hilarious. Make no wonder they are always pissed up

£4 for 3 course meal
View attachment 5030

View attachment 5031

Best part of the match

The Star Bar is a cracking pub. If you could have got past your snobbery you'd have got a belter of a pie.

Still, I'm glad you didn't enjoy sitting in your cushy corporate seats and I hope the prawn sandwiches were rank.

 

[Deleted member 159]

The Star Bar is a cracking pub. If you could have got past your snobbery you'd have got a belter of a pie.

Still, I'm glad you didn't enjoy sitting in your cushy corporate seats and I hope the prawn sandwiches were rank.

Of course it is, for druggies, pissheads.

£4 slap up meal

 

[AndyRM]

Of course it is, for druggies, pissheads.

£4 slap up meal

Yeah... So you didn't go in and don't know anything about the place. Fair enough.

Since you're being all sneery about Glasgow, where do you live?

PS - I'd settle your farm on the football front.

Oh, and to stop this stupid aside, have you got any insight to share about the conflict in Gaza? Because reputable sources are basically saying, we can't verify anything that either side are claiming right now.

 

[albion]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ving-leader-reshaped-the-country-in-his-image
"1995............A savvy political operator, Netanyahu had staked his political future on opposing the Oslo peace process. "

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

It's cute how you insult people's intelligence fairly routinely at the moment, especially when you're using the whole "I'm just holding up a mirror" schtick with Cookie.

You claim than can most if not all in this topic see multiple sides, so their enormous intelligence what you also claim i am insulting should make it impossible to do show. You would expect that big intellect to kick in. However a quick skim trough the topic learns otherwise. Only i think sunday, a showed a poster that always claims he is so much smarted then the rest that the same video he claimed showed Isreali Soldier shooting innocent Palestinians was claimed to be Hamas snipers on a other source. I have seen that particular video about a week before but didn't post it because it was from the get-go not clear who was who.(for me at least) So i'm not so convinced as you seem to be that people on this forum can an are willing to see both sides to be honest. And if we see our media landscape(in most of europe) i blame years of tame media have affected our ways of critical thinking. Being more interested in offering easy content then real journalism.

Anyway, to pick up on a point relevant to the whole propaganda/media thing...

90% of Palestinian media? You've made that up. I can do that too: I'm pretty confident in saying that near 100% of what comes out of the Israel side is controlled by the IDF, or at least very carefully controlled by sympathetic outlets.

There is a big difference here, where as being critical of Hamas means you have to flee Gaza and probably the West Bank, in Isreal you're still free. Surely like a said before, on paper they have the same freedom off speech but in reality it's not nearly at the levels of what we are used too and are expecting in europe.(with the added correction that technically in europe it's freedom of expression)
for example the article below behind a paywall sadly but the readable without paying summarly reveals enough of the article to show it's is highly critical of the country's leadership: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...ontation/0000018b-f398-d117-abcf-f7ffdb040000

Imagine the same kind of critical article about Hamas, if it would get publicized i don't think it the best choice for the editors in term of extending their life expectancy. That's the main point i'm trying to make, surely Isreal just as much tries to control the narrative certainly in the situation of a war, considering the majority of Isreali population has an involvelvement with the army in some sort, but apart from that it's still safer to criticise Isreal inside of Isreal then Hamas inside of Gaza or the West Bank.

 

[AndyRM]

"real journalism"

That's a laugh right there. You can't back up your sources, ignore having them pointed out as being biased or inaccurate and then go on the defensive.

Hareetz FFS.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

"real journalism"

That's a laugh right there. You can't back up your sources, ignore having them pointed out as being biased or inaccurate and then go on the defensive.

I also nowhere stated that i am an journalist now did i? I did back up my sources i just recently indicated that i won't do it from one particular poster, who also dives in, demand everything, ignores if supplied and than 50 post later rinse and repeat. and it's always selectively and inaccurately quoted so no i won't go above and beyond anymore for those posters.
And a bias yeah whatever i'm transparent about what my source is if you want to play it down as ''all bias sources'' just to be able to cope with it that's on you.
You can post better sources yourself right? or is it the old fashion the best captain stands on the land?

Hareetz FFS.

See, you first claim i only report one side than i report on the other and you have something to complain too, mean it is an discussion forum, but at least talk about the content, or open an new topic to discus which newsmedia suck(spoiler nearly all of them)

 

[AndyRM]

I also nowhere stated that i am an journalist now did i? I did back up my sources i just recently indicated that i won't do it from one particular poster, who also dives in, demand everything, ignores if supplied and than 50 post later rinse and repeat. and it's always selectively and inaccurately quoted so no i won't go above and beyond anymore for those posters.
And a bias yeah whatever i'm transparent about what my source is if you want to play it down as ''all bias sources'' just to be able to cope with it that's on you.
You can post better sources yourself right? or is it the old fashion the best captain stands on the land?


See, you first claim i only report one side than i report on the other and you have something to complain too, mean it is an discussion forum, but at least talk about the content, or open an new topic to discus which newsmedia suck(spoiler nearly all of them)

I'm perfectly capable of coping, thank you.

It is a discussion forum, and I've tried to engage with you in good faith in the past, which hasn't worked.

But here we go again:

Everything that is coming out from either side in this particular conflict is unproven and agenda based. People are taking sides, which is understandable. I think they're both reprehensible, but if I had any sympathies they would lie on the Palestinian side.

Does this make me anti-Semitic? No. Does this make me pro-Palestine? No?

People are being killed for what I'd describe as a stupid religious war based on the fantasies of fools.

F*ck it, here are the tenets of my temple:

I
One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.
II
The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
III
One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
IV
The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.
V
Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.
VI
People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.
VII
Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Looks like an agreement has been reached about a ceasefire and release of hostages. Temporary at the moment but let's hope it leads to more.