Israel / Palestine

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

You first.

I’ll wait.

Nope, you first, don't turn this thing around.

The EU sat on the report it commissioned into Palestinian school books that I mentioned earlier but it was leaked to a few outlets. This Bild article has more details:

https://m.bild.de/politik/ausland/p...lbuecher-hetzen-kinder-auf-76662574.bild.html

It would be naive to think that Hamas don't control what Palestinian children are taught in school and that the curriculum wouldn't reflect Hamas's view of Israel and of Jews.

That would be something... expected after UN funded terror tunnels UN funded Terror schools?

Ah, but that is kind of the point. We never see footage of the racist extremism that exists in certain communities in Israel. But we do see constant commentary on the equivalent that exists in Palestine.

Well when there wasn't fighting because of a Hamas invoked war they(Hamas) where killing to Palestinians because they where accused of being ''traitors'' that doesn't mean that if you look carefully enough that their isn't criticism on either the Isreali goverment or racism withing Isreali communities. But they don't kill eachother and drag their bodies trough the street like Hamas(yes i can provide video evidence but it is very graphic) So it does indeed get less attention.

And yes that is an valid point there are also racist jews, that's the reason the whole peace process never happened a racist jew(and orthodox) killed Rabin. But it's not an completely ignored fact but you have to take into account that similar to the Ukrainian war if Isreal goes to war the whole country goes to war, so those who may have opposition against the current goverment will mute those voices during the conflict. Similar as Zelensky didn't an doesn't have only fans either there is opposition to him in Ukraine to but they all are helping with the war efforts for the greater goal of peace.

Even the language used around Palestinian prisoner release is interesting. The word 'children' is not being used, even though many of them are. Quite often detained, without charge or trial for years on the basis of nothing. Israelis victims have been "killed", Palestinian victims have "died".

Hamas does exactly the same, just on a other channel. you also see the Hamas terrorist fist-pumping with those children once they see them for the last time all to fake the picture of them being friendly to them, while in some cases they killed their parent right under their eyes. In the video clips showing their release.

The Israelis are pumping great energy into keeping people's focus in Jewish victims at the exclusion of everything, but most especially context.

How is that different from all those efforts in the west to portray the Palestinians as victims or an Hamas initiated war? I mean it's a fair point that normal palestinians/gazan's are victims of Hamas but it was a fair point before the bombs starting falling, Hamas is called a terror organisation for a reason.
The sickening thing we see in the west is that during some of those protest there is support for Hamas. And or seem to claim Isreal somehow asked for it. Alltough Netanyahu's funding/helping hamas to create more division isn't an good idea, should never used as an justification.

Hamas are vile scum. But the truth is if a population are fenced into a prison camp, periodically bombed, frequently shot at, routinely humiliated, and offered nothing but sheer hopelessness, should we be surprised when the political movements that arise resemble Hamas?

Periodically bombed? Aren't you leaving out the fact they launched rockets first? and before that suicide attacks? The fact is both sides got a change at some point
Terrorist always have a justification, it never bears anything close with reality, because reailty is always about power, it always lift someone at the head of the organisation to a position that person wouldn't useally be in. So as the guy claimed to be the new jezus in Waco Texas years ago so he could rape little kids, so as the many different Muslim Caliphs we have had over time, with the most known names being Osama bin Laden and Al Bakr something from Isis. Without abusing religion they would just be a othercriminal person.

I was 'taught' about the 'Arab-Israeli Conflict' in a school in England, btw. No one even mentioned the Nakba or the occupation.

We did, does explain why your off that much on this topic.

Wikipedia has a good article on the Nakba, for those who want to know.
The central facts of the Nakba in 1948 are not disputed. During the 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight, approximately 750,000 Palestinian Arabs--over 80% of the population in what would become Israel--were expelled or fled from their homes and became refugees in neighboring states. Cities, towns, and villages were destroyed or depopulated. By the end of the war in 1949, Israel held about 78% of Palestine's land.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba

In 1948, before 1948 it was part of the British empire. A deal was proposed creating an Palestinian and a Isreali state, Isreal accepted what is now Palestine refused, so any future claims on that part of the deal are annulled, that how thing work if you refuse a deal you can't first start a war and then come back to the same terms later. You once again ignore that Nakba applied to both sides it may be called different but Jews where just as much forced to leave arabic countries in/after ''48

It says a lot about diversity in the Met that out of a staff of > 40,000 Londoners they can’t find any Arabic speakers to deploy for this sort of planned event.


View: https://twitter.com/beckettunite/status/1728701600921772246?s=61&t=IaNHN0MzKohAo3Ktl0DsFQ

Yeah, shame on them, what is it was dutch? something like ''ik vind de politie klootzakken, maar die hufters van Hamas ook en die Joden vind ik ook helemaal niet aardig'' even if they would be allowed apps translation would not pick up this correctly in most of the cases. (context is ''ik vind'' which translates as i think so it would be considered freedom of expression in this example.) But why should the uk police need to translate and Arabic text? it's not to much to ask to write in the language of the country your protesting. Otherwise the Police needs a translation service for every protest that is nonsense.

 

[Ian H]

You once again ignore that Nakba applied to both sides it may be called different but Jews where just as much forced to leave arabic countries in/after ''48

That is the pro-Israeli version, predictably enough. In fact many left voluntarily for the new Israel. Others were expelled, but they weren't gunned down or forced to flee for their lives for fear of being killed.

 

[Unkraut]

Are you really saying they [Muslims] only decried it [violence] for PR purposes? What makes you think that?

Some Muslims might have wised up here seeing how badly failure to do so can affect their reputation.

It's been interesting to see, for example the Green Party distance itself from Greta Thunberg because of her own failure to clearly condemn the violence against Israel that was the immediate cause of the current conflict. She has abused her position of influence on climate for the unrelated issue of Palestine and Israel.

Fridays for future Germany has also distanced itself from Thunberg. The young element of the population of the country that initiated the holocaust are only too well aware of the potential consequences of antisemitism. My own kids coming up through the school system here complained it was almost overdone.

That Middle East Forum?

Never heard of it until it provided an accurate summary in English of the unwillingness of Muslims here to condemn the violence against, Israeli civilians.

 

[C R]

Some Muslims might have wised up here seeing how badly failure to do so can affect their reputation.

It's been interesting to see, for example the Green Party distance itself from Greta Thunberg because of her own failure to clearly condemn the violence against Israel that was the immediate cause of the current conflict. She has abused her position of influence on climate for the unrelated issue of Palestine and Israel.

Fridays for future Germany has also distanced itself from Thunberg. The young element of the population of the country that initiated the holocaust are only too well aware of the potential consequences of antisemitism. My own kids coming up through the school system here complained it was almost overdone.

Never heard of it until it provided an accurate summary in English of the unwillingness of Muslims here to condemn the violence against, Israeli civilians.

It appears that Germany is even worse than the UK when it comes to throwing the antisemitism label around, and that according to a jewish writer
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/13/germany-jewish-criticise-israel-tv-debate

 

[newfhouse]

It's been interesting to see, for example the Green Party distance itself from Greta Thunberg because of her own failure to clearly condemn the violence against Israel that was the immediate cause of the current conflict. She has abused her position of influence on climate for the unrelated issue of Palestine and Israel.

Fridays for future Germany has also distanced itself from Thunberg. The young element of the population of the country that initiated the holocaust are only too well aware of the potential consequences of antisemitism. My own kids coming up through the school system here complained it was almost overdone.

Have you always been obsessed with teenage girls or is it only since religion bit you?

 

[Rusty Nails]

It appears that Germany is even worse than the UK when it comes to throwing the antisemitism label around, and that according to a jewish writer
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/13/germany-jewish-criticise-israel-tv-debate

It's not as if they have any cause to be over-sensitive on the issue.

In the UK we have to be sensitive to the issues arising from our past colonising and slavery history. Germany's history of genocide towards Jews (and others) is still in living memory.

 

[C R]

It's not as if they have any cause to be over-sensitive on the issue.

In the UK we have to be sensitive to the issues arising from our past colonising and slavery history. Germany's history of genocide towards Jews (and others) is still in living memory.

On the other hand, you would hope they would recognise genocide when they see it.

 

[Rusty Nails]

They will be damned if they do and damned if they don't, whatever words they use.

 

[C R]

They will be damned if they do and damned if they don't, whatever words they use.

If a jew is telling them they are overdoing it ...

 

[Rusty Nails]

If a jew is telling them they are overdoing it ...

How many Jews are telling them they are not?

It is easy to highlight the words of a person one agrees with, but in this article by one such person there is nothing to say this is (or is not) the view of many or most Jews in Germany. There will be different views in the German Jewish population, each one as important as the others.

I am not saying Germany are right on their public stance on Israel/Gaza, and in fact I think it gives out the wrong message and pressure will lead to them changing it, but I understand it and am loathe to criticise it.

 

[Unkraut]

In the UK we have to be sensitive to the issues arising from our past colonising and slavery history

I think the assumption everything to do with British colonisation was bad is false. When it comes to slavery the British having participated in this evil went on to ban the slave trade, then slavery itself, and used its naval power to enforce this.

Germany's history of genocide towards Jews (and others) is still in living memory.

There was an old boy, Jewish, on the telly a few nights age who could remember the Hitler period, and said it is more frightening to be a Jew in the Federal Republic at present than it was in the Reich in 1934. The antisemitism no longer comes from the state, but is from the fringe remnants of the Hitler thing but mostly 'imported'.

 

[theclaud]

LOL the BoD and the JC are inches away from calling each other antisemites...

 

[cookiemonster]

So, nothing at all then.

Nope, you first, don't turn this thing around.

 

[cookiemonster]

Evidence please? You have been asked several times already about this and you've came up with nothing, as usual.

That would be something... expected after UN funded terror tunnels UN funded Terror schools?

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

That is the pro-Israeli version, predictably enough. In fact many left voluntarily for the new Israel. Others were expelled, but they weren't gunned down or forced to flee for their lives for fear of being killed.

Fair still doesn't change the fact that both where forcibly moved, and that in 2006 before Hamas took power Isreali's living in Gaza where also forcibly removed. It was delivered to the gazas with great infrastructure and the first thing Hamas did was destroy.

Evidence please? You have been asked several times already about this and you've came up with nothing, as usual.

It's litterly above and in that discussion you pick and try to match from.