Israel / Palestine

[Beebo]

Has the Overton window moved so far to the right that it is now possible to say with a straight face that telegraph columnists are mostly on the left?

The Trotsky-graph

 

[bobzmyunkle]

However the Telegraph? have you seen their columnist? more left that right and certainly not far right

It might be interesting if you expanded on this assertion. There again it might not. It's definitely a statement that goes against most people's understanding of the Telegraph's position.

 

[Moodyman]

Hamas has been brilliant…for Israel. Or to be precise, the Israeli right.

It was the Israeli right that helped in the creation and growth of Hamas politically and financially. The view was that a more radical Palestinian group would undermine the more moderate and secular PLO. This it did, to the point that PLO and it’s leadership is now largely impotent.

It (Hamas) has also been useful in providing Israel with the political cover to act with impunity and for kicking the peace process
into oblivion. You can’t discuss
peace with an organisation that keeps bombing you and is committed to your ‘destruction’ (*). * There is a question mark about the Hamas Charter and its common translation in the West, but that is for another time.

Note, every time there is discussion of resuming the peace process, Hamas will do something bad. Israel will then
‘Defend’ itself and the cycle of misery and rage will continue.

However, this attack is different both in scale and reach. Israelis had gotten comfortable in the ability of their country to defend its citizens. This has shaken that confidence.

It will do two things: harden the
attitude of the Israeli conservatives (more punishment and poor treatment of Palestinians) and increase voices on the left to ensure it doesn’t happen again (meaning work towards lasting peace). At the moment the conservatives have a louder voice.

This suits the end goal of Greater Israel.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

It might be interesting if you expanded on this assertion. There again it might not. It's definitely a statement that goes against most people's understanding of the Telegraph's position.

i inserted their current headlines, Isreali's angry about how they protrayed netayahow, defending the BBC not calling Hamas terrorist etc. do not sounds very far right now do they?

 

[albion]

The Torygraph agenda is far right. I view it as an attack dog.

Remember, it was the Telegraph that was very much the main instrument that brought us Brexit.

 

[albion]

Hamas has been brilliant…for Israel. Or to be precise, the Israeli right.
........
This suits the end goal of Greater Israel.

Hamas promised revenge but it got ignored. So it feels very much unsuited now.
Both nations are now much prisoners of propoganda destiny.

 

[winjim]

Are you drunk or something? Daily mirror and express ok, but so far i known their basically an wrapper about the same content, just as the Sun. However the Telegraph? have you seen their columnist? more left that right and certainly not far right

This dude has been fighting against the feudal system which I guess makes him a radical left wing activist.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

Isreali's angry about how they protrayed netayahow, defending the BBC not calling Hamas terrorist etc. do not sounds very far right now do they?

Looks like reports behind a paywall?
Steve Bell (Guardian cartoonist) has cartoon rejected because Guardian decides it's anti-semitic.
John Simpson (BBC world affairs editor) defends BBC line on Hamas.

Where are the left wing columnists?

 

[bobzmyunkle]

This dude has been fighting against the feudal system which I guess makes him a radical left wing activist.

Not to mention style guru.

 

[C R]

Looks like reports behind a paywall?
Steve Bell (Guardian cartoonist) has cartoon rejected because Guardian decides it's anti-semitic.
John Simpson (BBC world affairs editor) defends BBC line on Hamas.

Where are the left wing columnists?

Everyone knows that any effort at nuance, however limited, is extreme left, and if it has anything to do with Israel it is antisemitic too. HTH

 

[winjim]

Not to mention style guru.

High waisted trousers are back in, you know.

 

[AndyRM]

Ownership of media in the UK is nearly all right wing/authoritarian. Even the Daily Mirror has gone to the Daily Express owning Reach.
Reach itself appears to heavily lean into ChatGPT/AI to generate stuff.

The ultra right Telegraph is for sale yet the team has gone even further right. Makes me wonder if the next billionaire buyer will gut all staff, or just follow on with the same (anti UK) agenda.
There is a hint that the Middle East will the dominant behind the scenes partner in future Telegraph ownership, as happens elsewhere.

Metro has always been owned by DMG, but as I said started out life as basically a daft light hearted thing. Definite tonal shift over the years, despite their claim to be neutral.

 

[C R]

The standard to which Palestinians are held is much higher than the one Israel is held to

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/11/israel-palestine-war-biden-zelenskiy

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Hamas has been brilliant…for Israel. Or to be precise, the Israeli right.

It was the Israeli right that helped in the creation and growth of Hamas politically and financially. The view was that a more radical Palestinian group would undermine the more moderate and secular PLO. This it did, to the point that PLO and it’s leadership is now largely impotent.

Any evidence of that claim? or is it only when you say something bad about terrorist killing people that is already coverred on many headlines do you people want tireing amount of ''evidence'' or copium?

It (Hamas) has also been useful in providing Israel with the political cover to act with impunity and for kicking the peace process
into oblivion. You can’t discuss

The Alex Jones line, it all one big cinparacy because the Ireali's love war so much, those palestinians are sweathearts, cutting off baby's heads is actually a sign of love really!

peace with an organisation that keeps bombing you and is committed to your ‘destruction’ (*). * There is a question mark about the Hamas Charter and its common translation in the West, but that is for another time.

Yeah but destroying the west(isis anyone?), making stronger islamic aliances to destroy everything opposing the islamic world conconquerer agenda was kind of a thing in the past 20 years, delussianly ignoring that fact and pretending it's Isreali funding an war against itself doesn't make peace any way close too now does it?

Note, every time there is discussion of resuming the peace process, Hamas will do something bad. Israel will then
‘Defend’ itself and the cycle of misery and rage will continue.

If you payed attention before Rabin got murdered and even when Arafat passed away you would have noticed he wasn't the most popular when he was suggesting peace, even if the peace in the en of the 90'' did happen, it wouldn't have come over night.

However, this attack is different both in scale and reach. Israelis had gotten comfortable in the ability of their country to defend its citizens. This has shaken that confidence.

You ignore all the actions of Hamas and all the other fractions, in you mind they might be coins of the Isreali far right however in the real world they are people with a free mind of their own, an with Iranian goverment backed militia on one side and Gaza on the other.

It will do two things: harden the
attitude of the Israeli conservatives (more punishment and poor treatment of Palestinians) and increase voices on the left to ensure it doesn’t happen again (meaning work towards lasting peace). At the moment the conservatives have a louder voice.

Why in your mind everything has to be the fault of Isreal? Surely they would be a way to find some truth in those claims, but there is more truth in the fact that some versions of muslim extremism require oppression, to push a certain goal, also your assertion that Isreal enables them doesn't really fit with their approach of the past give or take 10 years to focus on taking out their senior leaders instead of the disposables carrying out their plans.

This suits the end goal of Greater Israel.

what is surprise if would go ins this direction, really it's a bit the same as every Alex Jones podcast blames Soros, Bill gates and co for everything.

 

[BoldonLad]

Eh?

Getting attention. Ie it creates a bit of a “fuss” people notice, profiles are raised, free publicity.