Israel / Palestine

[theclaud]

Sorry - I may have been unclear. I meant that the motion was introduced as a political point scoring exercise, not that individual MPs don't care about the situation in Israel / Palestine.

Things can have more than one function.

 

[multitool]

What's the problem with the SNP's actions having a tactical element or being related to electoral politics? You don't seem to have a problem with Starmer manoeuvring in whatever way he sees fit to inflict damage on enemies, real or imagined. It's only in the current Labour Party that electoral success is understood as an end in itself, with no meaning or connection to the material conditions of our lives.

I didn't say that I did have a problem with it. What I did was describe the SNP's motivations which are nowhere near as is being portrayed here. I suppose it defuses some of the attack on Labour if it transpires that the attack is in bad faith

 

[multitool]

The primary motivation is the cessation of violence.

If there’s such a division within Labour that the SNP’s motion would ‘drive a wedge into its opponent’ then that’s not only secondary but indicates that Labour doesn’t have within its ranks the support it wants on the issue.

It’s time you stopped blaming the SNP for Labour’s internal problems.

But I'm not though, am I.

I'm pointing out that the SNP is cynically exploiting the split AND the suffering of Gazans

 

[icowden]

Things can have more than one function.

Things can also be two different things. The actions of a party seldom represent the totality of the views of the people who make up that party.

 

[icowden]

Gotta laugh at the idea that a split within the Labour Party needs to be 'engineered by the SNP'. Have you been living under a rock for the last eight years?

Ok - to drive a big wedge into the split. Let's not split hairs...

 

[albion]

Starmer is doing an ok job in difficult territory.

The right have successfully misused racism for political purposes. However, it is certainly biting them back, not that that is a good way to describe it.

 

[multitool]

Evidence of that rather astonishing statement?

"The SNP are taking a purely principled sstane"

...says literally nobody.

All the commentary, whether from politicians or pundits, is recognising the SNP game-playing.

 

[multitool]

Starmer is doing an ok job in difficult territory.

I think he is trying to do several things. He's avoiding the self-laid trap provided by Corbyn's ineptitude that the right are ready to exploit (for purely domestic electoral reasons...and who can blame him) and he's also moving himself from LOTO to a NATO leader at a time when actual threats to the UK are looming.

Its not pretty, it's very easy to criticise, but national leaders rarely have the luxury of taking the moral high ground with no consequences, and this has to be viewed within the context that Israel will ignore all hostility and therefore grandstanding over it would amount to purely making us feel good about ourselves rather than having any material impact.

 

[theclaud]

But I'm not though, am I.

I'm pointing out that the SNP is cynically exploiting the split AND the suffering of Gazans

'Cynically exploiting' the suffering of Gazans by, er... trying to force the parliament of one of Israel's staunchest allies to oppose their mass murder of Gazans.

 

[multitool]

'Cynically exploiting' the suffering of Gazans by, er... trying to force the parliament of one of Israel's staunchest allies to oppose their mass murder of Gazans.

Yeah, it's a win-win for them, isn't it. Makes them look morally unimpeachable AND they get to make their main electoral opponent in Scotland look weak.


It was your birthday yesterday, TC.

 

[multitool]

Meanwhile...

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1870435/RAF-F-35-Israel-Gaza

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I'm pointing out that the SNP is cynically exploiting the split AND the suffering of Gazans

I think I get it: nobody can call for a ceasefire while it embarrasses Labour.

Way to show support for peace. 👏………………. 👏 ………….……👏

 

[Mr Celine]

Have to agree with @multitool The SNP used it for political gameplaying, not because they are bothered one way or another about either Israel or Palestine or what is happening there.

Perhaps the SNP just want to show sympathy towards a small nation subjected to frequent invasions and attempted genocide from a larger aggressive neighbour?

 

[BoldonLad]

I think he is trying to do several things. He's avoiding the self-laid trap provided by Corbyn's ineptitude that the right are ready to exploit (for purely domestic electoral reasons...and who can blame him) and he's also moving himself from LOTO to a NATO leader at a time when actual threats to the UK are looming.

Its not pretty, it's very easy to criticise, but national leaders rarely have the luxury of taking the moral high ground with no consequences, and this has to be viewed within the context that Israel will ignore all hostility and therefore grandstanding over it would amount to purely making us feel good about ourselves rather than having any material impact.

Is that similar to the manoeuvres of the SNP (and numerous others) ?

 

[multitool]

Is that similar to the manoeuvres of the SNP (and numerous others) ?

In so far as they are all manoeuvring, yes.