bobzmyunkle
Senior Member
Do you have a link to this please? The actual complete police statement that is.
It seems somewhat implausible for too many reasons to enumerate here.
Israel / Palestine
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It seems somewhat implausible for too many reasons to enumerate here.
glasgowcyclist
Über Member
There isn’t another group of supporters in the world that can go stirring up violence in another country, then play the victim, and have their Prime Minister instantly prepare military planes to “rescue” them.
They are nothing like your average football supporter.
AuroraSaab
Squire
I think it was a statement at a tv press conference, but this looks like a transcript of it in this blog. Starts at 12.30pm.
https://www.politie.nl/nieuws/2024/november/8/05-geweldsincidenten-na-wedstrijd-ajax---maccabi.html
If you scroll down to 9am, there is an earlier joint press statement from the Mayor, Police Chief, and Chief Public Prosecutor.
https://www.politie.nl/nieuws/2024/november/8/05-geweldsincidenten-na-wedstrijd-ajax---maccabi.html
If you scroll down to 9am, there is an earlier joint press statement from the Mayor, Police Chief, and Chief Public Prosecutor.
I think any violence in such situations is "unacceptable and cannot be defended" but at the same time one can maybe see how things escalated and maybe guess that some actions (by some visitor supporters) are almost bound to cause reaction, etc.
Report in Guardian covering the evening before through the post match incidents includes
Report in Guardian covering the evening before through the post match incidents includes
Ian
Ian H
Legendary Member
For those who imagine that the attack by Hamas came out of nowhere.
‘An Arab can’t help hating Israel because he can’t stop seeing the 800,000 refugees who lost their Palestine homes during the conflict,’ he wrote in July 1953. ‘Israel won’t let them return, fearing a fifth column, and dirt-poor Arab nations can’t spare land or jobs. The US feeds 70 per cent their 1500 calories daily – barely enough to keep an active man slightly alive.’ ‘Drive around Jordan, Lebanon, Syria or Egypt,’ he went on, ‘and you’ll pass their filthy tent cities, where the dead are buried in shallow graves without the final dignity of coffin or canvas wrapping.’ He described the refugees as people ‘who have vegetated on UN crumbs for five years, ignored by a world concerned elsewhere’, and wrote of ‘babies [who] sleep tight on their bellies to ease hunger pains.
From an article about the journalist Fred Sparks.
https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v46/n22/david-margolick/diary
‘An Arab can’t help hating Israel because he can’t stop seeing the 800,000 refugees who lost their Palestine homes during the conflict,’ he wrote in July 1953. ‘Israel won’t let them return, fearing a fifth column, and dirt-poor Arab nations can’t spare land or jobs. The US feeds 70 per cent their 1500 calories daily – barely enough to keep an active man slightly alive.’ ‘Drive around Jordan, Lebanon, Syria or Egypt,’ he went on, ‘and you’ll pass their filthy tent cities, where the dead are buried in shallow graves without the final dignity of coffin or canvas wrapping.’ He described the refugees as people ‘who have vegetated on UN crumbs for five years, ignored by a world concerned elsewhere’, and wrote of ‘babies [who] sleep tight on their bellies to ease hunger pains.
From an article about the journalist Fred Sparks.
https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v46/n22/david-margolick/diary
glasgowcyclist
Über Member
I see there’s no mention of the Palestinian flags draped from upper storey windows which also attacked the Israeli football fans. Disappointing.
It's there just not in the piece that has been translated. The report is pretty much about what happened on the day of the match with very little of what happened the days before or even the chanting during the minutes silence for the dead from the floods in Spain. So you could say a bit one sided.
Door Maccabi supporters wordt op het Rokin een vlag van de gevel gehaald. Ze vernielen een taxi.
Op de Dam wordt een Palestijnse vlag in brand gestoken.
Maccabi supporters remove a flag from the facade of the Rokin. They destroy a taxi.
A Palestinian flag is set on fire on Dam Square.
Door Maccabi supporters wordt op het Rokin een vlag van de gevel gehaald. Ze vernielen een taxi.
Op de Dam wordt een Palestijnse vlag in brand gestoken.
Maccabi supporters remove a flag from the facade of the Rokin. They destroy a taxi.
A Palestinian flag is set on fire on Dam Square.
bobzmyunkle
Senior Member
The police summary
If @dutchguylivingintheuk wants to condemn the violence , I'll agree with him. If he wants to portray the Maccabi supporters as innocent victims he can fark off.
- Maccabi supporters are dereaping a flag from the facade on the Rokin. They're destroying a cab.
- On the Dam, a Palestinian flag is set on fire.
- An online call to taxi drivers to mobilize
- The taxi drivers are heading to the Holland Casino where there are 400 Israeli supporters at the time
If @dutchguylivingintheuk wants to condemn the violence , I'll agree with him. If he wants to portray the Maccabi supporters as innocent victims he can fark off.
AndyRM
Elder Goth
He's the least subtle Israel fanboy on here, of course he's going to side with Maccabi supporters.
dutchguylivingintheuk
Über Member
https://www.parool.nl/amsterdam/hal...en-om-giftige-cocktail-te-bedwingen~b07bdbd8/ this is the fact-sheet afterwards from the major. and here but i don't know if it's paywalled for first time visitors https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2024/11/1...ielen-mannen-uit-taxi-israeliers-aan-a4872836
the claim is that one taxi was attacked by Macabi supporters, who told them off for removing a flag. Even if true, this whole topic is full off loads of people thinking Isreal overreacts, i would call a group of taxi drivers randomly attacking a group for alleged actions on a college also a overreaction but maybe that's just me.
dutchguylivingintheuk
Über Member
I think it's an translation of degraderen, or degrade/destroy roughly translated.
That's one overal picture, the other picture is that social media and then primarily those circulating around said taxi drivers and scooter poeple where not mobilising after the taxi was destroyed but long before that. Just as those flags where conveniently placed, in certain spots. doesn't justify the obvious vandalism, but if you put Isreali flags on the path of a palestina protest, would you put your hands in the fire to say it gets unharmed? i don't i think it would be destroyed just like these palestinian flags. Not good but that's the world we live in.
And yes police officers that are not the higher ranked ones interview by several media say there where not enough officers on the street.(they called up more after it went wrong)
I already said those supporters where no angels, but yes i do condemn their violence, in contrary to what @AndyRM seems to think i don't Justify everything Isreal is doing, i would needed to be a lot more active in this topic. I just don't join in if there al already 30 post about ''look what Isreal has done now'' but i do respond if the involvement if Isreal is questionable are their are indicators that it are downright lies. Where we have to take into account that both the IDF and HAMAS and anything in between including many ''independent'' journalist aren't always telling the truth.
The report also states they mobilized more police than ''normally'' it leaves out the fact that it had to go wrong first. ME-ers (what is ''riot'' police here the forces with shields and stuff) where surprised how low their numbers where so low initially because they did see the social media post and thus higher risk, i will share the article if i can find it somewhere without a paywall.
AndyRM
Elder Goth
Lollll. The amount you protest saying you don't defend Israel is almost cute.
glasgowcyclist
Über Member
Do you ever wonder why that might be?
bobzmyunkle
Senior Member
I rode a couple of thousand miles through Spain this summer and in every city there were Palestinian flags draped from windows. I don't think it was to provoke maccabi fans, maybe that's just a Dutch thing.
Anyhow keep it up @dutchguylivingintheuk, what excuse for this?
Verified social media videos show Maccabi fans setting off flares and fireworks, chanting in Hebrew “olé, olé, let the IDF [Israel Defense Forces] win, we will fark the Arabs”, and declaring that there were “no children” left in Gaza.
Just bantz? Guys having a laugh?