Israel / Palestine

[Fab Foodie]

Even jewish people get labelled as antisemitic if they want to bring a bit of nuance to the debate
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-his-book-about-a-palestinian-fathers-tragedy

Within Israel there are levels of jewishness and they don't all agree on many aspects of life and politics. Not as homogenous as often imagined. There are however some large voices which probably command more of the spotlight and skew our opinions. As with many things in life, the more extreme or fundamental the view, the tendency to be more vocal. Nuance and reason then tends to be the first casualty....

 

[Deleted member 159]

He also clearly places the cause of the conflict at the feet of those that dreamed creating a jewish homeland in a place where there were people living already. This crap of a centuries old conflict is pure bollöcks, a bunch of Europeans took over a piece of land from someone about seventy years ago and they seem to expect that those displaced somehow evaporate into thin air.

Watch the clip I posted then go and do some research. It is their original land.

 

[Fab Foodie]

He also clearly places the cause of the conflict at the feet of those that dreamed creating a jewish homeland in a place where there were people living already. This crap of a centuries old conflict is pure bollöcks, a bunch of Europeans took over a piece of land from someone about seventy years ago and they seem to expect that those displaced somehow evaporate into thin air.

Furthermore they've taken sides and failed over decades to manage the monster they created by failing to criticise the Israeli state for it's various incursions etc. It's typical of the west to constantly turn a blind eye for short-term political or financial expedience. They allow a cancer to grow and are then surprised when that growth becomes uncontrollable. The partition of India, Putin's recent actions, he should have been tackled at the Crimea stage. Our failure to maintain our commitment to the people of Afghanistan is another.
It's the great lesson of (Western) history....

 

[BoldonLad]

He also clearly places the cause of the conflict at the feet of those that dreamed creating a jewish homeland in a place where there were people living already. This crap of a centuries old conflict is pure bollöcks, a bunch of Europeans took over a piece of land from someone about seventy years ago and they seem to expect that those displaced somehow evaporate into thin air.

I agree, displacing an existing population was not fair or reasonable. However, at the time, which bit of uninhabited land on earth, would you have chosen?

If we accept the events which set up the state of Israel were perhaps well intention, but, not really sensible. The situation now is, it was done. We cannot wind the clock back. The only plausible way forward, in my view, is a negotiated settlement with a two state solution. Not easy, but, nor is perpetual war.

 

[C R]

Watch the clip I posted then go and do some research. It is their original land.

Boo hoo. Even that claim is a-historical bollöcks. The jews were just one of the religious groups that lived in Palestine when the Romans exiled and dispersed them throughout the empire. They were never a majority of the population, even 2000 years ago. Even if they had been, so what, why should the people that remained there have to make reparations for what a long gone empire did?

Following that logic, maybe we should go through the property registers of each European country that expelled jewish people in the middle ages and return those properties to them, don't you think?

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

This crap of a centuries old conflict is pure bollöcks,

as you can read here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews history actually proves you (and him for that matter) wrong.

a bunch of Europeans took over a piece of land from someone about seventy years ago and they seem to expect that those displaced somehow evaporate into thin air.

in an earlier wikepedia link i already showed that most of them where much earlier then 70 years and where from Russia not europe. Also they where clear from the beginning they wanted to start their own state, but tried to achieve that by buying(you known paying for stuff) as much land as possible which was met with violence's, just like how they where driven out of the area's in the first place. Guess at some point the generation that had enough emerged, history and the koran for that matter doesn't support the ''aggressive jewish invader'' reading, if anything the ''aggressive jew'' is something of the past 70 years.

 

[C R]

I agree, displacing an existing population was not fair or reasonable. However, at the time, which bit of uninhabited land on earth, would you have chosen?

If we accept the events which set up the state of Israel were perhaps well intention, but, not really sensible. The situation now is, it was done. We cannot wind the clock back. The only plausible way forward, in my view, is a negotiated settlement with a two state solution. Not easy, but, nor is perpetual war.

What about somewhere in Europe? It is only in the context of a colonial mentality, where the Palestinians were not seen as worthy of consideration, where the creation of Israel in Palestine can make sense.

 

[C R]

as you can read here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews history actually proves you (and him for that matter) wrong.

in an earlier wikepedia link i already showed that most of them where much earlier then 70 years and where from Russia not europe. Also they where clear from the beginning they wanted to start their own state, but tried to achieve that by buying(you known paying for stuff) as much land as possible which was met with violence's, just like how they where driven out of the area's in the first place. Guess at some point the generation that had enough emerged, history and the koran for that matter doesn't support the ''aggressive jewish invader'' reading, if anything the ''aggressive jew'' is something of the past 70 years.

This is getting tiresome. If Jews being persecuted somewhere gives them right to that land then they should also be given all of Europe. European persecution of Jewish people was often far harsher than in the Ottoman or Persian areas of control.

Oh, and last time I checked, Russia is in Europe.

 

[winjim]

Boo hoo. Even that claim is a-historical bollöcks. The jews were just one of the religious groups that lived in Palestine when the Romans exiled and dispersed them throughout the empire. They were never a majority of the population, even 2000 years ago. Even if they had been, so what, why should the people that remained there have to make reparations for what a long gone empire did?

Following that logic, maybe we should go through the property registers of each European country that expelled jewish people in the middle ages and return those properties to them, don't you think?

The city of York has entered the chat...

 

[Fab Foodie]

Many Christians around the world could also make a claim for territory in the Middle East - where will it all end?

 

[BoldonLad]

What about somewhere in Europe? It is only in the context of a colonial mentality, where the Palestinians were not seen as worthy of consideration, where the creation of Israel in Palestine can make sense.

Indeed. I agree. But, that didn’t happen, so, we have to deal with the situation as it is, not, the situation as we may have liked it to be. I do struggle to think of any uninhabitated areas of Europe, but, you may know better.

 

[AndyRM]

Most of Shetland is uninhabited. Be a bit of an environment change shock though.

 

[BoldonLad]

Most of Shetland is uninhabited. Be a bit of an environment change shock though.

Well, there is a solution move one side or the other to Shetland. They would even have some oil.

 

[Moodyman]

Many Christians around the world could also make a claim for territory in the Middle East - where will it all end?

Many already do . Some evangelists in the US are the strongest supporters of Israel. For they believe the Jews are temporary safe-keepers of the Holy Land until the return of the Messiah.

 

[Moodyman]

This is getting tiresome. If Jews being persecuted somewhere gives them right to that land then they should also be given all of Europe. European persecution of Jewish people was often far harsher than in the Ottoman or Persian areas of control.

Oh, and last time I checked, Russia is in Europe.

In fact, Jews expelled from parts of Europe found refuge is Muslim lands as they were deemed ‘people of the book’.