Israel / Palestine

[Ian H]

as you can read here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews history actually proves you (and him for that matter) wrong.

You need to read more closely. It proves nothing of the sort.

 

[Fab Foodie]

You need to read more closely. It proves nothing of the sort.

They've certainly been unlucky....

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

This is getting tiresome.

indeed tiresome expecting others to read but not wanting/able/whatever yourself.

If Jews being persecuted somewhere gives them right to that land then they should also be given all of Europe. European persecution of Jewish people was often far harsher than in the Ottoman or Persian areas of control.

Your claim was that Jews lived in Israel etc. before was ''a-historical'' if you would have actually read the article you would see it goes indeed into persecution of Jews but also shows lists the area's where they lived including the middle east. So the one talking bollocks is you.
And if/what/etc regime was harshers is up for interpretation, it also doesn't really matter for the point being made here.

Oh, and last time I checked, Russia is in Europe.

Cheap point only part of Russia is Europe but when reffered to europe Russia is most often seen and called for apart from europe. and you known that very well

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

You need to read more closely. It proves nothing of the sort.

not?

s early as 605 BCE, Jews who lived in the Neo-Babylonian Empire were persecuted and deported.

where was Neo-babylon then?

and also from the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Judah
with an map, please tell me where is that located?

and what about all the jediwsh things in Jerusalem and surrounding?

or the ballte for Medina?
and can go the list down, doesn't really matter because they all prove what i stated that Jews Where in the middle east for hunderds and thousands of years, so the claim they just ''picked a piece of land'' is wrong on those grounds alone.

With that i don't say i approve all off Isreal/idf's actions or the way that state has been formed etc. but that is also a separate discussion. (edited to add the last line)

 

[C R]

Your claim was that Jews lived in Israel etc. before was ''a-historical'' if you would have actually read the article you would see it goes indeed into persecution of Jews but also shows lists the area's where they lived including the middle east. So the one talking bollocks is you.
And if/what/etc regime was harshers is up for interpretation, it also doesn't really matter for the point being made here.

I didn't say Jews didn't live in Palestine. I said they were one of the groups that lived there. The a-historical claim is that somehow Palestine was the land of the Jews in some long lost past. It wasn't, it was always shared with other peoples.

 

[Ian H]

not?

where was Neo-babylon then?

and also from the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Judah
with an map, please tell me where is that located?

and what about all the jediwsh things in Jerusalem and surrounding?

or the ballte for Medina?
and can go the list down, doesn't really matter because they all prove what i stated that Jews Where in the middle east for hunderds and thousands of years, so the claim they just ''picked a piece of land'' is wrong on those grounds alone.

In the Middle East (some of them) not particularly in Palestine.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

In the Middle East (some of them) not particularly in Palestine.

Some is quite subjective i mean if they get killed frequently you not gonna have a lot left now do you?

I didn't say Jews didn't live in Palestine. I said they were one of the groups that lived there. The a-historical claim is that somehow Palestine was the land of the Jews in some long lost past. It wasn't, it was always shared with other people's.

I did not claim they did have the exclusive full and only right and/or that it ever was their only land, i just pointed out their claim to the location of Israel is not based on just picking a random piece of land like the article claimed.
Also worth mentioning that current isreal isn't only jewish either, and if Isreal opens it's borders for Gaza's every so much time there is on run on permanent stay visums. Just to indicate living as a muslim in Isreal is perfectly possible the other way round is not.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

In fact, Jews expelled from parts of Europe found refuge is Muslim lands as they were deemed ‘people of the book’.

again not the full story:

According to Mark R. Cohen, during the rise of Islam, the first encounters between Muslims and Jews resulted in friendship when the people of Medina gave Muhammad refuge, among them were Jewish tribes of Medina. Conflict arose when Muhammad expelled certain Jewish tribes after they refused to swear their allegiance to him

and

Traditionally, Jews living in Islamic states were subjected to the status of dhimmi, therefore they were allowed to practice their religion and administer their internal affairs, but were subjects to certain conditions.[17] They had to pay the jizya (a per capita tax imposed on free adult non-Muslim males) to Muslims.[17] Dhimmis had an inferior status under Islamic rule. They had several social and legal disabilities such as prohibitions against bearing arms or giving testimony in courts in cases involving Muslims.[

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews#Muslim_world

 

[C R]

Some is quite subjective i mean if they get killed frequently you not gonna have a lot left now do you?



I did not claim they did have the exclusive full and only right and/or that it ever was their only land, i just pointed out their claim to the location of Israel is not based on just picking a random piece of land like the article claimed.
Also worth mentioning that current isreal isn't only jewish either, and if Isreal opens it's borders for Gaza's every so much time there is on run on permanent stay visums. Just to indicate living as a muslim in Isreal is perfectly possible the other way round is not.

The exclusive use IS their claim of their right to take the land from the Palestinians.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Israelis are not going to be kicked out of the state they declared theirs in 1948. No amount of argument is going to change that, other than a full scale war in the middle east which they lose...unlikely given their power and the support they have from the West, particularly the US.
It seems that every time there is a war between Israel and their Arab neighbours the Palestinians come off worse.

The most important thing is to stop the cycle of violence committed by both sides, even if that is asymmetric, but I am not sure that that will ever happen as the UN cannot even do anything about the illegal settlements.

Perhaps things should have been done a lot better than they were 75 years ago, but they weren't and we are stuck with what we have got and the only thing that can be done is to make what we have got work better.

Everybody can look at the situation and decry the unfairness of it but does anyone have a suggestion for a solution to this that is not just wishful thinking but stands any realistic likelihood of being implemented.

I ask the question not knowing the answer, but suspecting that nothing will happen other than more violence.

 

[Milzy]

Joe Biden didn’t just recently give Iran £6 billion. There’s reports of considerably more though hard to prove from over the years. Regardless of money I believe Iran funded the attack and trained those evil dogs. I’m surprised to read they’ve found no evidence of this. Maybe they are taking their time and next year the evidence will pop up as if by magic and we’ll be funding war in Iran next.

 

[theclaud]

"And now, here's the weather."


View: https://twitter.com/Lowkey0nline/status/1713968039580881215?t=sfVw4w5dxLfxOWKmmkD9_g&s=19

 

[matticus]

Some sanity from our PM?
https://www.gov.uk/government/speec...-situation-in-israel-and-gaza-16-october-2023
......
We stand with the Jewish community.
Mr Speaker, I also recognise that this is a moment of great anguish for British Muslim communities, who are also appalled by Hamas’ actions but fearful of the response.
We must listen to these concerns with the same attentiveness.
Hamas is using innocent Palestinian people as human shields – with the tragic loss of more than 2,600 Palestinian lives, including many children.
We mourn the loss of every innocent life – civilians of every faith, every nationality who has been killed.
And so let’s say it plainly: we stand with British Muslim communities too.
<...snip...>
I believe we must support, absolutely, Israel’s right to defend itself.
To go after Hamas, take back the hostages, deter further incursions, and strengthen its security for the long term.

But this must be done in line with international humanitarian law but also recognising that they face a vicious enemy that embeds itself behind civilians.
As a friend, we will continue to call on Israel to take every possible precaution to avoid harming civilians.

I repeat President Biden’s words – as democracies “we are stronger and more secure when we act according to the rule of law.”
Humanity. Law. Decency. Respect for human life.
That’s what sets us apart from the mindless violence of the terrorist.

 

[winjim]

Hamas is using innocent Palestinian people as human shields – with the tragic loss of more than 2,600 Palestinian lives, including many children.

People really do treat Israel like an autistic kid with no impulse control, don't they?

 

[Deleted member 49]

People really do treat Israel like an autistic kid with no impulse control, don't they?

Same was used by the British army and government in N Ireland in Catholic areas,claims made that innocent people were complicit and hid the IRA in their homes.