Israel / Palestine

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As I said, this website has been pulled up for misquoting statistics. I did check this via Google and Wikipedia. How do we know that they're not actually quoting the correct figures. The US Intelligence Dept. said today that the death toll is between 100-300. I think they'll be more reliable.
To be fair, they are both quotes from a ''source'' so not an official statement but if you look at the pictures the main damage is at the parking lot the hospital itself is mostly fine(for so far having an bomb/rocket dropped at your building is fine.) So i'm more inclined to beleave the low number then the high number. but we have to see if anything official comes out that puts a more definite conclussion.
 

Unkraut

Master of the Inane Comment
Location
Germany
I was thinking about the parallels to the expulsion of Germans (sorry!) from the former easter territories like Silesia or East Prussia by the Russians at the end of WW2. Had been German for centuries.

For years this wasn't recognised by the West German government and the expellees themselves. Finally Brandt emerged as Chancellor and faced facts - this loss of territory, whether justified or not (they were by majority Hitler supporters), was never going to be reversed. The land is now Polish, that's settled, and recognised under international law.

Enter the EU, and Germans due to freedom of movement have the right to settle and live in Poland. They do not have a right as I see it to move in such large numbers as to re-Germanise areas and then agitate to become part of Germany again - there are areas with a large German minority. They would need to learn the language and integrate. In any event there are now very few who can even remember the initial expulsions, all in their mid 80's or over.

Similarly with Palestinians and Israel. Israel exists, is recognised as a country by the international community and is a member of the UN. Has a right of self defence. Very few of the Palestinians who were forced out during the initial formation of Israel and the attempted partition of the British mandate just after WW2 are still alive. Any peace deal that included a right of return for their descendants would have to stipulate that they cannot attempt to reverse the existence of the Jewish state. It would have to parallel Germans living in Poland.
 

Unkraut

Master of the Inane Comment
Location
Germany
I was thinking about the parallels to the expulsion of Germans (sorry!) from the former easter territories like Silesia or East Prussia by the Russians at the end of WW2. Had been German for centuries.

For years this wasn't recognised by the West German government and the expellees themselves. Finally Brandt emerged as Chancellor and faced facts - this loss of territory, whether justified or not (they were by majority Hitler supporters), was never going to be reversed. The land is now Polish, that's settled, and recognised under international law.

Enter the EU, and Germans due to freedom of movement have the right to settle and live in Poland. They do not have a right as I see it to move in such large numbers as to re-Germanise areas and then agitate to become part of Germany again - there are areas with a large German minority. They would need to learn the language and integrate. In any event there are now very few who can even remember the initial expulsions, all in their mid 80's or over.

Further, it would be unjust to re-expel the Poles who have settled in these territories, most of whom were born there.

Similarly with Palestinians and Israel. Israel exists, is recognised as a country by the international community and is a member of the UN. Has a right of self defence. Very few of the Palestinians who were forced out during the initial formation of Israel and the attempted partition of the British mandate just after WW2 are still alive. Any peace deal that included a right of return for their descendants would have to stipulate that they cannot attempt to reverse the existence of the Jewish state. It would have to parallel Germans living in Poland.
 
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Lovely people.
 

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Ian H

Legendary Member
'In March 2019, Netanyahu told his Likud colleagues: “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank." '
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/20/benjamin-netanyahu-hamas-israel-prime-minister
 

Rusty Nails

Country Member
Which I believe shows they are more interested in the elimination of Israel as a state than getting fairer treatment for the Palestinians.

Israel is not going to go anywhere and any solution must be within that context.
Hamas has always been clear destruction of Isreal and all jews living their is their goal. (Ideology wise they hate jews to the bone, if they had easy acces to all jew they would have no problems killing them all)
If they ever succeed of course they(Palestinians) are not gonna get a fairer treadment. We saw that partly with Isis they start killing eachother for not being extreme enough or other false accusations etc.
 
"it wasn’t long before he told me that he had been involved in an ethnic cleansing experiment dreamed up by the Israelis after the 1967 war, intended to remove as many Palestinians as possible from the newly occupied territories."
https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v45/n10/hadeel-assali/diary
If you need to go that far back maybe go a little bit futher back so you can finally read up and understand that Isreal is not an illigal occupier the land was from the uk and they decided to split it, the palestians had a say but instead of peacefully discussing the issue, they chose war, which against all odds they lost.

Also a must read for all the ''asymetrical balance'' screamers, all tough most of us will known just chose to ignore it. only known facts when they are convienent right?

Untermensch!
 
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