Israel / Palestine

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Not sure what this word is and it is probably true that they are not trying to kill  all Palestinians but it certainly looks as if they don't care if they do as long as they get revenge and destroy Hamas. I doubt whether the families of those Palestinians killed are as worried as the people on this forum are about the definition of ethnic cleansing.

Systematically opposed to Hamas going house to house killing everyone. and opposed to Hamas having the objective to kill everyone in Isreal, then every country that supports then, then the rest of the world. (source the son of one of the founders of Hamas) Whilst it is unlikely they will ever get that far, it is important to realise.

Not a bad result, killing two high ranking Hamas members today while accidentally killing 700 Palestinians (some of whom will obviously also be Hamas members). What is the ratio of deaths of civilians to Hamas members that would be unacceptable to you.

First off where did you get that 700 number from? You might want to read into some background into palestian casualty numbers, here for example
View: https://twitter.com/BakerLuke/status/1716806141806858513


Second off, i'm not falling into the trap off ''what is acceptable for you?'' the answer is zero, 0, null. However the only way to get to zero is for Isreal to do nothing, and that would lead to the destruction of Isreal either today or the year after, because Hamas sure as hell isn't gonna stop.
So that's not acceptable either. Because than we have more innocent people killed, we have a full on genocide and we have an Hamas and lots of iranian proxies that then from a very serious problem.

The Israelis had a lot of genuine sympathy two weeks ago after the Hamas atrocities, apart from the not unexpected celebrations or crocodile tears from some, and it is understandable and realistic that they should try to destroy Hamas, but their indiscriminate escalation of violence and lack of concern about the death of thousands of innocent civilians, adults and children, is starting to change attitudes. Even the UN has said there have been violations of humanitarian law on both sides...although Israel does not have a good record of listening to the UN.

Isreal replied already and i think they make a good point to state that quote ''For 15 years, the UN stood by and watched Hamas steal aid dollars, build military facilities in hospitals, store rockets in UNRWA schools, fire rockets from civilian neighborhoods, arrest, torture, and murder political opponents, silence free speech, and commit countless human rights crimes against the Palestinian people.''

You can't blame Isreal for being lets say ''brutal'' if you didn't say anything when Hamas did above things right? Or do you think UN double standards are absolutely cool?

The scale of this revenge mission is going to mean that the middle east will become ever more dangerous and Israelis will still not be able to live in peace. The cycle of violence will go on.

''Revenge'' you missed the point where this is an coordinated attack between Hamas, Hezbollah and all the other Iranian proxies? ''Revenge'' is exactly how Hamas wants you to see it, but again, if they do nothing they are still under rocket attacks, that will only get worse, so i question from your own playbook, are israeli lives less important to you than those of palestians?

 

[Deleted member 49]

Israel calls for UN boss to resign after he criticised Israeli action in Gaza.

View: https://twitter.com/UNRWA/status/1717072744561426809?t=GOuxtOF-GvmXJLD8tf1GGg&s=19

 

[Rusty Nails]

are israeli lives less important to you than those of palestians?

Each single Israeli life is as important as each Palestinian.

I do not count the murderers Hamas in this equation.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Israel calls for UN boss to resign after he criticised Israeli action in Gaza.

View: https://twitter.com/UNRWA/status/1717072744561426809?t=GOuxtOF-GvmXJLD8tf1GGg&s=19

His comments seem absolutely on the money to me.....

The United Nations’ secretary general has called for an immediate ceasefire to end “epic suffering” in the Gaza Strip after Israeli airstrikes reportedly killed more than 700 people in a single day and hospitals began to shut down for lack of fuel.
António Guterres said the bombardment and blockade of Gaza amounted to the “collective punishment of the Palestinian people” and violated international law, comments that sparked a fierce row with Israel.
“To ease epic suffering, make the delivery of aid easier and safer and facilitate the release of hostages. I reiterate my appeal for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire,” he said.
Guterres said the 7 October attacks by Hamas were “appalling” but did not happen in a vacuum. “The Palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation,” he said. “They have seen their land steadily devoured by settlements and plagued by violence; their economy stifled; their people displaced and their homes demolished. Their hopes for a political solution to their plight have been vanishing.”

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

His comments seem absolutely on the money to me.....

using numbers provided by an terrorist organisation? sure.. Net think you claim muslims are the oppressed right? al the while Jews/Isreal was attacked on the 7th. In certain neighborhood of Paris/London/Amsterdam/Rotterdam/ Leeds/Berlin You're aboslutley safe walking with a headscarf or niqaab but face harrasment or worse with an jewish ''hat'' for which the english word i can't find atm.

The United Nations’ secretary general has called for an immediate ceasefire to end “epic suffering” in the Gaza Strip after Israeli airstrikes reportedly killed more than 700 people in a single day and hospitals began to shut down for lack of fuel.

700 people according to Hamas, you known the same that claimed 500 died in an rocket attack by their own rocket(which they still deny), which actually estimated 10-300

António Guterres said the bombardment and blockade of Gaza amounted to the “collective punishment of the Palestinian people” and violated international law, comments that sparked a fierce row with Israel.

Isreal correctly commented, those rockets are launched from UN Schools, buildings and so on. Just like where the ammunition is stored and the fact Hamas could go on an steal Aid fron the UN for all those years.
Looks like the UN does a lot of fingerpointing, but forgets to look at their own role.

Guterres said the 7 October attacks by Hamas were “appalling” but did not happen in a vacuum. “The Palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation,” he said. “They have seen their land steadily devoured by settlements and plagued by violence; their economy stifled; their people displaced and their homes demolished. Their hopes for a political solution to their plight have been vanishing.”

No his organization, the UN did nothing when they where using (stealing) their money, using their buildings and (stealing)materials to prepare for this so in other words he/the UN is complicit.

 

[albion]

A ban for stating the obvious.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...an-un-staff-after-secretary-generals-comments
Israel are known to be very extreme at controlling narratives, to the point of farce.

 

[Ian H]

What else can Isreal realitically do to prevent the thread of Hamas and all those Hezbollah fractions Iran has been funding?

In March 2019, Netanyahu told his Likud colleagues: “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”

 

[Deleted member 49]

His comments seem absolutely on the money to me.....

The United Nations’ secretary general has called for an immediate ceasefire to end “epic suffering” in the Gaza Strip after Israeli airstrikes reportedly killed more than 700 people in a single day and hospitals began to shut down for lack of fuel.
António Guterres said the bombardment and blockade of Gaza amounted to the “collective punishment of the Palestinian people” and violated international law, comments that sparked a fierce row with Israel.
“To ease epic suffering, make the delivery of aid easier and safer and facilitate the release of hostages. I reiterate my appeal for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire,” he said.
Guterres said the 7 October attacks by Hamas were “appalling” but did not happen in a vacuum. “The Palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation,” he said. “They have seen their land steadily devoured by settlements and plagued by violence; their economy stifled; their people displaced and their homes demolished. Their hopes for a political solution to their plight have been vanishing.”

Not forgetting that Israel has killed 35 UN workers in the last two weeks.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Israel are known to be very extreme at controlling narratives, to the point of farce.

Now is a very good time to start making this very clear to the wider world....

 

[matticus]

The United Nations’ secretary general has called for
<...blah blah ... >
“The Palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation,” he said. “They have seen their land steadily devoured by settlements and plagued by violence; their economy stifled; their people displaced and their homes demolished. Their hopes for a political solution to their plight have been vanishing.”

Does he have authority to make statements like this? Are they just personal views? IAMFI!

 

[Fab Foodie]

Does he have authority to make statements like this? Are they just personal views? IAMFI!

No idea. But it seems an honest and factual nutshell appraisal of the situation. Alternative facts are no doubt available....

 

[winjim]

Did I read somewhere that they were accusing him of perpetuating the blood libel? If so then that sounds a lot like they're weaponising antisemitism. Given that it's a difficult subject and with the attitude of some prominent Jewish commentators, or at least my interpretation thereof, I find that more than just a little problematic.

 

[multitool]

At this point the Israeli govt is weaponising everything. The holocaust, blood libel, antisemitism, and they have a lot of proxies in western countries to assist.

It's like these Missing Children posters appearing in London, the defacement of which is causing outrage.

But what actually are these posters? Are they useful? Will a poster in Hackney or Kensington assist in away way in the return of hostages many thousands of miles away? I think not.

So they have to be seen for what they are, which is part of a massive propaganda campaign by a foreign state to keep attention on the suffering on their own people and away from the war crimes they are committing themselves as well as the killing of many more people by themselves than they have lost.

 

[Ian H]

Does he have authority to make statements like this? Are they just personal views? IAMFI!

Those things are all happening and have been happening for a long time. Well documented.

 

[matticus]

... has killed 35 UN workers in the last two weeks.

'snot an appealing career, is it? :-/