Israel / Palestine

[BoldonLad]

As I said, it is a matter of perception, not reality. If you ask a random person in the street in Sunderland or Solihull, what do you think they would say an israeli looks like?

I wouldn't wish to speculate.

But, you didn't use the word "Israeli", you used the word "Jew".

Are the two words interchangeable?

Can you be an Israeli without being a Jew?

Can you be a Jew without being an Israeli?

In my simple head, the term "Jew" applies to a Religion, the term "Israeli" is a Citizenship, or, possibly, a Nationality.

 

[C R]

You can be Jewish without being Israeli, but orthodox Jews are working hard to make it that you have to be Jewish to be an Israeli, with recent changes to the Israeli construction moving in that direction.

There's also the fact that if you are Jewish you have an automatic right to move to Israel. But if you are a Palestinian displaced during the creation of Israel you have no right to return.

Note that Israel uses the equivalence between being Israeli and Jewish to their advantage by labeling criticism of its policies as anti semitic.

 

[newfhouse]

Can you be an Israeli without being a Jew?

Yes, but.

Can you be a Jew without being an Israeli?

Yes, but you have a right to become Israeli if you wish as long as you’re the right sort of Jew.

It’s complicated and, you won’t be surprised the hear, discriminatory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_citizenship_law

 

[BoldonLad]

Yes, but.

Yes, but you have a right to become Israeli if you wish as long as you’re the right sort of Jew.

It’s complicated and, you won’t be surprised the hear, discriminatory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_citizenship_law

Sounds like most, if not all things Religious, what a surprise.

Maybe my comprehension skills are lacking, but, it does not seem terribly different to the "rules" pertaining to many other countries.

 

[winjim]

Re: babies


View: https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/1711778571528626394?t=ty6TV0tyJ7Ir0akGxEdscQ&s=19

 

[winjim]

Meanwhile Israel does kill babies

Spoiler: TW

View: https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/1711769846801666283?t=4jCEMfPiNv8tmEvU2xpjeQ&s=19

 

[BoldonLad]

Re: babies


View: https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/1711778571528626394?t=ty6TV0tyJ7Ir0akGxEdscQ&s=19

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67050350

Not unreasonable to assume that bombing (by Israel) will have killed civilians, including children, much as Bombing by ourselves and Germany killed civilians, including Children in WW2. Doesn't make it right, or, desirable, of course.

 

[Beebo]

Near enough every politician and media pundit is saying "the killing of civilians is never acceptable and that's why we must stand with Israel" as it drops bombs on apartment blocks and kills civilians.

I’ll attempt to offer some justification.

What Hamas did was deliberately target civilians. Totally unacceptable to everyone sensible person.

Israel, like every other state, will never be so stupid as to deliberately do that. They will target “military sites” and civilians will die as collateral damage because war is a dangerous and ugly thing, and missiles aren’t that accurate.

Sadly, “Hamas started it” is all most people will be thinking. The average Joe in the street has no idea or interest of their long struggle.

 

[winjim]

Not unreasonable to assume that bombing (by Israel) will have killed civilians, including children, much as Bombing by ourselves and Germany killed civilians, including Children in WW2. Doesn't make it right, or, desirable, of course.

You may be mistaking me for my grandfather.

This I will say though. The area bombing of German cities during the second world war was wrong and probably constitutes a war crime. However, the cause was just, the crews were brave and the opponents were matched. I don't believe any of that applies here.

 

[winjim]

I’ll attempt to offer some justification.

What Hamas did was deliberately target civilians. Totally unacceptable to everyone sensible person.

Israel, like every other state, will never be so stupid as to deliberately do that. They will target “military sites” and civilians will die as collateral damage because war is a dangerous and ugly thing, and missiles aren’t that accurate.

Sadly, “Hamas started it” is all most people will be thinking. The average Joe in the street has no idea or interest of their long struggle.

Plausible deniability, and backing from the US, the UK and other Western powers.

 

[newfhouse]

Israel, like every other state, will never be so stupid as to deliberately do that.

I wish this was true but it was demonstrably untrue even before the recent horrific Hamas attacks.

 

[Moodyman]

Yes, but.

Yes, but you have a right to become Israeli if you wish as long as you’re the right sort of Jew.

It’s complicated and, you won’t be surprised the hear, discriminatory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_citizenship_law

Takes me back a few years. I once introduced a new female colleague to a Jewish colleague and friend. Afterwards, alone, I remarked that he had a fellow Jewish colleague to promote Jewish points of interest (holidays, festivals). He remarked in that dry sense of humour that Jews are famous for, “Nah, she’s the wrong sort of Jew”.

Apparently, she got her Jewishness from her father, whereas Jewish identity is usually obtained from the mother.

 

[Moodyman]

Netanyahu said: “We will win this war”.

He’s mistaken. The only winners are the arms producers.

 

[multitool]

Israel, like every other state, will never be so stupid as to deliberately do that. They will target “military sites” and civilians will die as collateral damage because war is a dangerous and ugly thing, and missiles aren’t that accurate.

I'm not sure that is true. I think they deliberately target civilians because one of their aims is to terrorise the Palestinians. I think that for the hard-right in Israel, Palestinians are not even human. They refer to periodic mass killing of Palestinian civilians as "mowing the grass". In that respect, their outlook on their foes' civilians resembles that of Hamas.

This is what is so dismaying about the one-sided nature of much of the commentary.

 

[BoldonLad]

You may be mistaking me for my grandfather.

This I will say though. The area bombing of German cities during the second world war was wrong and probably constitutes a war crime. However, the cause was just, the crews were brave and the opponents were matched. I don't believe any of that applies here.

I wasn’t around for WW2 either, although, a near miss. By “our” I meant UK and it’s Allies, but you knew that.