Israel / Palestine

[cookiemonster]

Body of hostage found near hospital today. Yehudit Weiss

Israel have secured the western flank of northern gaza. New intelligence material has been gathered opening new areas to search seek out hamas

Weapons and tunnels found at three hospitals. Gaza’s Al Shifa, Al Quds and Rantisi hospitals

You do understand (probably not) that there's no way of independently verifying those claims as all journalists in Gaza have to be embedded in the IDF so the IDF controls the narrative.

Any independent journalists were forced to leave as the IDF made it clear that they would be targets.

 

[Deleted member 121]

What you apparently don't understand is that a information war is part of every modern war

Ahh, that modern Sun Tzu fellow at it again with his foresight is he? Smug git...

 

[multitool]

Dutchess doesn't seem to understand that we fully realise what the information war is, but that doesn't mean the 'information' is fact.

I consider it highly unlikely that an army willing to kill nearly 5000 children in a handful of weeks will suddenly show compassion.

At the heart of this, and by "this" I mean the 70 year history, is extreme racism. Anybody, me included, who has spent time with Israelis will be very familiar with it. It doesn't take more than a passing interest in Israeli politics to see it. Ben Gvir and Smotrich have built careers on it.

The cynicism of throwing empty boxes with hurriedly made labels saying, in English, 'Medical Supplies', into a hospital, is extreme.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Dutchess doesn't seem to understand that we fully realise what the information war is, but that doesn't mean the 'information' is fact.

Oh yes i do realize, it's just not backed by what you post.

I consider it highly unlikely that an army willing to kill nearly 5000 children in a handful of weeks will suddenly show compassion.

So you take the numbers of a known terror organization, whom are especially known over lets say it very diplomatic ''are not very accurate with numbers, including death tolls'' but doubt everything Isreal says? biased to the point it's clouded your judgement.

At the heart of this, and by "this" I mean the 70 year history, is extreme racism. Anybody, me included, who has spent time with Israelis will be very familiar with it. It doesn't take more than a passing interest in Israeli politics to see it. Ben Gvir and Smotrich have built careers on it.

This conflict said it before but i will say it again, is much older than 70 years, but even if we focus on that 70 years, you now pretend that ''extreme racism'' is exclusive to Isreal. You couldn't be more wrong. There was a very strong racist element in the 7 October attacks and so is there in Palestinian society which goes far beyond ''feeling opressed'' or something. (bit of a silly argument anyway, of Isreal would oppress them, how would you call Hamas actions? yep an ''oppressive regime'')

Yet there are Palestinians living safely and without systematic government prosecution in Isreal, but there are no Jews living in Gaza before October 7 how come?
Because Palestinians are far more racist, it's just against a group you apparently like to hate on too, so it's ok, just like the event before the second worlds war.
No that is not personal but that is the general tone that follows the pro-Palestinian narrative,(with that i mean during protest etc. following their narratives, declarations complaints etc.) I left out the Hamas supporters on purpose as they form a smaller more extreme group.

The cynicism of throwing empty boxes with hurriedly made labels saying, in English, 'Medical Supplies', into a hospital, is extreme.

Empty boxes? any evidence of that? offcourse you don't you don't care about evidence is you can shoot.e on the Idf right?

 

[multitool]

I just can't be bothered

 

[bobzmyunkle]

there are no Jews living in Gaza before October 7 how come?

Bizarre question? And the answer apparently is

Because Palestinians are far more racist, it's just against a group you apparently like to hate on too, so it's ok, just like the event before the second worlds war.

@dutchguylivingintheuk get help, there's still a semi functional NHS in the country you've decided to call home.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

I just can't be bothered

tldr any response would expose your hypocrisy even more.

Bizarre question? And the answer apparently is

Let's first read the full sentence again and not just the part you cherry picked to make it sound differently ''Yet there are Palestinians living safely and without systematic government prosecution in Isreal, but there are no Jews living in Gaza before October 7 how come?'' and the context was Isreal being blamed by @multitool off ''extreme racism'' How would you call it if a certain group can't live somewhere solely because of their ethnicity?

 

[glasgowcyclist]

So you take the numbers of a known terror organization, whom are especially known over lets say it very diplomatic ''are not very accurate with numbers, including death tolls'' but doubt everything Isreal says?

BBC Verify has looked at this, and there is no reason to believe that the death figures from Gaza are less accurate than usual in such a conflict.


“Others who have scrutinised the health ministry's figures include economics professor Michael Spagat, from Royal Holloway, University of London - who chairs the charity Every Casualty Counts which studies death tolls in wars.
He says he and a colleague found just one duplicate entry in the health ministry dataset - that of a 14-year-old boy.

Prof Spagat has also looked back at previous conflicts, and found that health ministry figures in Gaza have held up under past scrutiny.
In an analysis of health ministry death figures from the Israel-Gaza conflict in 2014, in which Gaza was bombed, and a separate record of death figures from that same year collated by Israeli human rights organisation B'Tselem, Prof Spagat found overall consistency in the reported figures.
The ministry of health said 2,310 Gazans had been killed in 2014, while B'Tselem counted 2,185 deaths. The UN said 2,251 Palestinians were killed, including 1,462 civilians and Israel's foreign ministry said the 2014 war killed 2,125 Palestinians.
Discrepancies such as these are "fairly normal" says Prof Spagat, as some people may have died in hospital for reasons subsequently shown to be unrelated to violence in conflict.
Ola Awad-Shakhshir, president of the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics, in Ramallah, in the occupied West Bank, receives regular updates of deaths from Gaza.

Ms Awad-Shakhshir says that Israel's interior ministry effectively controls ID numbers for newborn babies born in Gaza and the West Bank - the same ID numbers that appear on the Hamas-run health ministry's register of recorded deaths.”

 

[Deleted member 159]

There had been far more Jewish people living in neighbouring countries until recent times. Now there are virtually none of some tiny numbers . That would bear out Dutch's comment about Palestinians being far more racist.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

There had been far more Jewish people living in neighbouring countries until recent times. Now there are virtually none of some tiny numbers . That would bear out Dutch's comment about Palestinians being far more racist.

Conclusively @CXRAndy.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

BBC Verify has looked at this, and there is no reason to believe that the death figures from Gaza are less accurate than usual in such a conflict.

Ms Awad-Shakhshir says that Israel's interior ministry effectively controls ID numbers for newborn babies born in Gaza and the West Bank - the same ID numbers that appear on the Hamas-run health ministry's register of recorded deaths.”[/I]

''Less accurate than usual in such a conflict'' says it all really. Other media are at least a bit more honest, saying it's provided by Hamas and no real way to verify their claims. To give you an example of an extra factor, on almost every footage you see of Hamas fighters/terrorist they wear civilian clothes, so if they get killed are they accounted to those civilian deaths? most likely but is that a accurate number? No they should be counted under military deaths as they are combatants by international norms.

There had been far more Jewish people living in neighbouring countries until recent times. Now there are virtually none of some tiny numbers . That would bear out Dutch's comment about Palestinians being far more racist.

Excellent reminder there where indeed more Jews living in others middle eastern countries, all expelled after the forming of Isreal and their where living under certain regimes, had to pay extra taxes and such.. hey minus the extra taxes that's how @multitool described Gazan's had to live, so if it's about Gaza's/Palestinians is an example of how terrible they are being extorted/tortured/etc. But for the jews that same logic does not apply? Questions @multitool Questions... so far it's not a good look, not a good look at all.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

''Less accurate than usual in such a conflict'' says it all really.

What do you mean by saying the quoted phrase ‘says it all’?

 

[C R]

There had been far more Jewish people living in neighbouring countries until recent times. Now there are virtually none of some tiny numbers . That would bear out Dutch's comment about Palestinians being far more racist.

The populations dwindled as a reaction to the expulsion of Palestinians after the creation of Israel. Also, guess which country has the largest Jewish population in Asia after Israel.

 

[All uphill]

You don't known what i check and what i don't check but if i would post every Israeli propaganda post, i would have posted about 10 fold more in this topic.
What you apparently don't understand is that a information war is part of every modern war, you and @multitool apparently only now came to that conclusion.

But everything to deny Hamas likes to hide in hospitals, amongst civilians etc. there is a little clip that i haven't posted yet that shows a man being interviewed, (by Al-jazeera) The first part they happely listen, because he is angry at Isreal for destroying whole flats, neighborhoods etc. then when he is about to start on his second part in which he rages about Hamas hiding in between civilians and in Hospitals (he says amongst other things ''why don't they (Hamas) hide in hell) the Al-jazeera reporter rushes away as soon as he realizes he is criticizing Hamas, after which the men kicks him.(sort off) we only know this because a other channel (Memri TV also Arab) was filming as well. Al-jazeera would bring it, with only the first part not being cut as ''man angry at Isreal'' So your point of information war swings both ways. And stupid details about claiming weapons found in a Xray machine would be an ''danger if the machine would be on(thing is sealed you known)'', ''would be very old weapons(actually the ones Hamas uses)'', ''probably they(isreali's) put there''. Are just as much part of it, but just as that failed Hamas friends rocket attack was blamed on Isreal at first, they officially still do, but evidence shows otherwise, it's an extra piece the puzzle surely Isreal would call it evidence but there are also rumors, partial evidence, statements after ''interogations'' all very consistently say their HQ's are under hospitals, so lets' not pretend it's just a random find, it's a other piece of the puzzle.

But then again, even if Isreal reaches those tunnels, it wouldn't surprise me if some of you find a way to claim it's all Isreal's making a show or something.

Hamas are horrible? Yes.
That doesn't automatically mean the IDF are good guys, @dutchguylivingintheuk .

Hamas were wrong to kill people on 7/10? Yes.
That doesn't automatically mean it's right to kill Palestinian children.

 

[Deleted member 159]

Hamas are horrible? Yes.
That doesn't automatically mean the IDF are good guys, @dutchguylivingintheuk .

Hamas were wrong to kill people on 7/10? Yes.
That doesn't automatically mean it's right to kill Palestinian children.

No it's doesn't, Hamas started this conflict on October 7th. Israel decided to completely destroy hamas or at least try.

They have decided to go after hamas wherever they hide. Which happens to be in residential areas, hospitals, schools.

This is to Israel like 9/11, the second holocaust. They are not going to allow hamas or anyone else threaten their people again, especially terrorists on their doorstep.

Hamas thought they would be safe, capturing hostages, hiding in the general population. How wrong they were.