Lee Anderson is 'very angry' - a thread for all Lee Anderson's ire....

[multitool]

I've been ruminating a considered answer to that point, but Frances Ryan does a better job in here

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/12/keir-starmer-labour-poor-sick-disabled-tory

Basically, both the tories and labour have been shoving a baseball bat wrapped in razor wire up the ärse of the most disadvantaged in society. Neither labour nor the tories are listening, and all labour can bring itself to do is offer some diluted lidocaine to numb the pain a bit. Is it any wonder that people would listen to someone who cares, even if the concern is fake?

That isn't an answer to the question I asked, which was:

How can Labour appeal to these Brexity voters and distance themselves from Tories?

The answer is: they can't.

At the moment, all they can do is try to get elected with the biggest possibly majority within the confines of a system that rewards centralism and penalises radicalism.

And with that in mind, they are succeeding.

 

[icowden]

How can Labour appeal to these Brexity voters and distance themselves from Tories?
The answer is: they can't.

But also - they don't need to. Opinion polls now show that the vast majority of the country think that it has been a massive mistake.

 

[BoldonLad]

But also - they don't need to. Opinion polls now show that the vast majority of the country think that it has been a massive mistake.

Those who voted leave may or may not think it a mistake, but, that is not the issue causing them to think twice about voting Labour. At least that is true among those I hear discussing the subject.

 

[C R]

That isn't an answer to the question I asked, which was:

How can Labour appeal to these Brexity voters and distance themselves from Tories?

The answer is: they can't.

At the moment, all they can do is try to get elected with the biggest possibly majority within the confines of a system that rewards centralism and penalises radicalism.

And with that in mind, they are succeeding.

They haven't won the election yet the election hasn't even been called yet.

This applies to labour as much as it does the democrats

https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2024/03/12/democrats-listen-up/

 

[icowden]

Those who voted leave may or may not think it a mistake, but, that is not the issue causing them to think twice about voting Labour. At least that is true among those I hear discussing the subject.

I'm baffled that anyone would need to think twice about voting. Either you vote for the current shootshow, or you vote for the other person or persons who can win and end the current shootshow. That's it.

Who on earth is going "well, I still think the conservative party needs another 5 years to fix things. Everyone makes mistakes"?

Surely at this point everyone with a vague sense of sanity is going "let's give someone else a go, it's not as if it can get any worse. A lettuce could make a better fist of it than this lot..."

 

[AndyRM]

I'm baffled that anyone would need to think twice about voting. Either you vote for the current shootshow, or you vote for the other person or persons who can win and end the current shootshow. That's it.

Who on earth is going "well, I still think the conservative party needs another 5 years to fix things. Everyone makes mistakes"?

Surely at this point everyone with a vague sense of sanity is going "let's give someone else a go, it's not as if it can get any worse. A lettuce could make a better fist of it than this lot..."

I agree. Much as I dislike Starmer, he is the only viable candidate for change, no matter how slight that change may be.

It's actually the first time I'll have voted Labour. When I started voting it was always for the Lib Dems, but chucking Charles Kennedy under the bus and Nick Clegg's spineless coalition ended my support for them. I went Green after that (fully knowing that it was basically a protest vote), but I feel now that they've lost their way with far too much in-fighting, and the spat with the Scottish Greens over transphobia annoyed me.

So now it's Labour. Which I'm not particularly pleased about, but as you say, voting Conservative would be insane, unless you're one of the privileged few who have benefitted from this never-ending car crash of a government.

 

[BoldonLad]

I'm baffled that anyone would need to think twice about voting. Either you vote for the current shootshow, or you vote for the other person or persons who can win and end the current shootshow. That's it.

Who on earth is going "well, I still think the conservative party needs another 5 years to fix things. Everyone makes mistakes"?

Surely at this point everyone with a vague sense of sanity is going "let's give someone else a go, it's not as if it can get any worse. A lettuce could make a better fist of it than this lot..."

Who said that former Labour voters, or, even, in my area the very rare Conservative voter, was going to vote Conservative?, it is Reform who are likely to pick up the disillusioned, from the mutterings I hear.

To me, that is very concerning.

 

[icowden]

It's actually the first time I'll have voted Labour.

In our area we have a choice between the LIb Dems and a chap called John Cope who wants to be our parliamentary MP. He appears to be too embarrassed to admit that he is running for the Conservative party. His propaganda doesn't mention the word conservative or use the party logo other than in the very small publishing print on the back. He even has a personalised e-mail address rather than using a conservative party email. This tactic doesn't seem to be working so well for him. He's also woefully uninformed. Apparently if we don't vote for him, then Labour might win in our area. This, presumably, will happen just after hell freezes over.

 

[icowden]

Who said that former Labour voters, or, even, in my area the very rare Conservative voter, was going to vote Conservative?, it is Reform who are likely to pick up the disillusioned, from the mutterings I hear.
To me, that is very concerning.

The question is, will reform just split the Conservative vote and allow an easier Lib-Dem or Labour victory? Presumably if you are in South Tyneside it's a safe Labour seat anyway. Both Jarrow and South Shields being comfortably Labour by some margin.

 

[Deleted member 121]

Those from tradition Labour voting areas who will vote reform are likely those who voted UKIP in the mid 2010's. They've become swing voters TBH but have affected the course of politics in this country, even if their chosen party doesn't gain power.

 

[BoldonLad]

The question is, will reform just split the Conservative vote and allow an easier Lib-Dem or Labour victory? Presumably if you are in South Tyneside it's a safe Labour seat anyway. Both Jarrow and South Shields being comfortably Labour by some margin.

This is the North East. We don’t have a “conservative vote”!

I suspect it is unlikely that Reform, or anyone else will overturn the huge Labour majority in this area, at the next GE. However, at a local council level, Labour are becoming a “bit wobbly”.

 

[Beebo]

In our area we have a choice between the LIb Dems and a chap called John Cope who wants to be our parliamentary MP. He appears to be too embarrassed to admit that he is running for the Conservative party. His propaganda doesn't mention the word conservative or use the party logo other than in the very small publishing print on the back. He even has a personalised e-mail address rather than using a conservative party email. This tactic doesn't seem to be working so well for him. He's also woefully uninformed. Apparently if we don't vote for him, then Labour might win in our area. This, presumably, will happen just after hell freezes over.

you clearly live in the same constituency as my parents. Raab’s old seat.

As you know it’s a very wealthy area but also fairly open minded and pro Europe. They will almost certainly give the blue team a blood nose. Labour have no chance. It’s a nailed on win for the Lib Dems.

And this is the problem that the Tories have. They have abandoned the traditional uni educated Home Counties voters in their million pound homes, in favour of the red wall voters who are poorly paid and poorly educated. It’s tragic really.

 

[icowden]

As you know it’s a very wealthy area but also fairly open minded and pro Europe. They will almost certainly give the blue team a blood nose. Labour have no chance. It’s a nailed on win for the Lib Dems.

Not entirely sure it's nailed on, although Raab did his best to reduce the Conservative majority to zero during his tenure.

I'd say that the problem the Tories have is very similar to the problem Labour had under Kinnock. They are pandering to the extremes and forgetting that by and large it's the complacent middle of the road people who elect the Government. We are a centrist country (or at least I like to think so). Blair stayed in power by being left wing but centrist. Thatcher was pretty centrist as were Major and Cameron. Cameron's error was the referendum which hailed a new period of politics which has gone further and further right wing until we now have a government getting more and more reminiscent of late 1930s Germany.

I suspect that Starmer will be similarly centrist, if he wants to have longevity, whilst the Conservative party needs to completely regenerate, shed the lunatics and get back to basics of free market economics.

 

[BoldonLad]

......

And this is the problem that the Tories have. They have abandoned the traditional uni educated Home Counties voters in their million pound homes, in favour of the red wall voters who are poorly paid and poorly educated. It’s tragic really.

I know my spelling and grammar may not be the best, but, I am deeply wounded

 

[Beebo]

I know my spelling and grammar may not be the best, but, I am deeply wounded

It’s clearly a generalisation.

The point being you would normally expect the opposite.