Martin Luther King and soup protests
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theclaud
Reading around the chip
LOL I was just calling your bluff, but I'm touched that you decided to look into it to the depth of several millimetres. No one believes that your opposition to protest is actually about the working conditions of cleaners. Have you read the Public Order Bill?
D
Deleted member 49
Guest
View: https://twitter.com/jerrysaltz/status/1584380608746135553?t=xshYQyRKsrKa9tdnStet7g&s=19
Seeing as though Monet has now been sloshed with potatoes in Germany I thought this quote seemed apt.
AuroraSaab
Legendary Member
I have no opposition to protest that doesn't make life harder for people already at the bottom of the UK pile. My other objection is that if you say it's OK for climate protestors to break the law and block the road then you are saying it's OK for abortion objectors to break the law and prevent women going into clinics.
The truth is you had no idea how much the people cleaning up afterwards earn, because you don't care. You couldn't be arsed to do a 2 minute google to check. As I said, 'The end justifies the means' is not an unusual stance but I wish you'd just own it rather than pretending it's something else.
How do you feel about the ambulance that was called to a fatal road crash that was allegedly delayed for 40 minutes due to road protesters?
The truth is you had no idea how much the people cleaning up afterwards earn, because you don't care. You couldn't be arsed to do a 2 minute google to check. As I said, 'The end justifies the means' is not an unusual stance but I wish you'd just own it rather than pretending it's something else.
How do you feel about the ambulance that was called to a fatal road crash that was allegedly delayed for 40 minutes due to road protesters?
AuroraSaab
Legendary Member
I have no opposition to protest that doesn't make life harder for people already at the bottom of the UK pile. My other objection is that if you say it's OK for climate protestors to break the law and block the road then you are saying it's OK for abortion objectors to break the law and prevent women going into clinics.
The truth is you had no idea how much the people cleaning up afterwards earn, because you don't care. You announced that the cleaners were all on the Living Wage but couldn't be arsed to do a 2 minute google to check.
As I said, 'The end justifies the means' is not an unusual stance but I wish you'd just own it rather than pretending it's something else.
How do you feel about the ambulance that was called to a fatal road crash that was allegedly delayed for 40 minutes due to road protesters?
theclaud
Reading around the chip
OMG wait til you hear what the government has been doing.
No. The latter is targeted, gendered harassment and intimidation of people accessing healthcare.
Shooting from the hip again without weighing up your opponent. I've gained LWF accreditation for the organisation I work for. Whilst it relies to a large extent on self-declaration and good faith, you are expected to address the supply chain as well as direct employment. I've also worked as a cleaner, and had numerous jobs of which cleaning is an everyday component, present included. I can assure you that activists chucking soup at the glass cover of a famous masterpiece is going to be much less of an issue for the cleaners than what tutting liberals leave in the toilets and canteen.
I do, thanks. It's absolutely true in this case, which includes the context of mainstream political inaction.
'Allegedly'. Wait til you find out etc etc...
newfhouse
pleb
How do you feel about the under resourced ambulance services failing to arrive promptly because there’s too much damned traffic on the roads? Nothing alleged here, it happens every damned day.
AuroraSaab
Legendary Member
Once again, just say 'The end justifies the means'. It's a common position, just be honest about it.
I wish there were less traffic. I would consider voting for a party that had strategies to reduce traffic.
Would I undertake an action that might inevitably cause an ambulance to be delayed? No.
Again, just say that you think this is a price worth paying to bring attention to climate change. I don't know why you can't be honest about it.
I wish there were less traffic. I would consider voting for a party that had strategies to reduce traffic.
Would I undertake an action that might inevitably cause an ambulance to be delayed? No.
Again, just say that you think this is a price worth paying to bring attention to climate change. I don't know why you can't be honest about it.
newfhouse
pleb
You have gone through allegedly, might, and inevitably quicker than we change chancellors. I understand you don't like (some?) protests but your reasoning feels all over the place.
As for the end justifying the means, yes, sometimes.
mudsticks
Squire
Thing is it's almost impossible to have protests that guarantee life isn't made more difficult for those at the bottom of the pile..
That's in part because that's how 'being bottom of the pile' works (or rather doesn't work)
Those less privileged are by definition less well insulated from any difficulty.
Climate justice, is inextricably linked with social justice.
Those less privileged already are disproportionately impacted by climate change.
At the moment that's largely in the global south / majority world..
So we don't really see that, unless we're properly paying attention.
But climate change impacts are already here on our doorsteps, and will be felt increasingly here.
Stopping new fossil fuel exploitation (the aim of 'Just Stop Oil' people) is a very specific way to combat climate change.
Vulnerably housed, and people on lower incomes, who are often those with poorer health too, they are and will be more vulnerable to the effects of extreme weather events.
Government action now, on renewable energy, resilient and just food systems, insulating / updating housing stock, and a minimum income / sustainable jobs market, would significantly improve the present and future lives of those currently 'at the bottom of the pile'
As a primary food producer, I'm experiencing challenges to my production system because of changing weather patterns. .
And that's in a relatively resilient cropping system deliberately designed with all this in mind.
If this isn't properly addressed as a serious issue then the availability of nutritious affordable quality food, will be reduced, not enhanced. Again impacting those on lower incomes.
Anti abortion protestors can use the same non-violent protest tactics, if they wish, although their arguments / cause is pretty easy to counter.
They can bring it on.in my view, at the moment women's rights, and the threat to them are still under reported, and the 'debate' on reproductive and women's healthcare is often woefully misinformed .
But trying to prevent women from accessing personal healthcare is altogether different to trying to get more / faster action to tackle climate change.
Climate change protest happening now, is being done in the interests of future (currently voiceless and voteless) generations, of both humans, and all the other species affected.
Imo, theres a place for both direct non violent action (which gets media attention) alongside more undramatic (unreported) work, the like of which I tend to do atm.
I don't see it as either/or, they're both important.
Whichever, our right to protest must be upheld, without it democracy is diminished.
Authoritarian governments would love to do away with the right to protest altogether.
AuroraSaab
Legendary Member
Great, we agree then. Sometimes the end justifies the means. We just disagree on where that point is.
newfhouse
pleb
Probably.
theclaud
Reading around the chip
D
Deleted member 49
Guest
What you've never eaten liquidized mash ? There again we recently witnessed your culinary skills 🙄
