Maureen Lipman: Cancel culture could wipe out comedy

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Ian H

Legendary Member
Perhaps stop sealioning and give us your thoughts on "cancel culture", who is impacted (if anyone in your opinion) and potentially your thoughs on freedom of speech/expression?
I'm responding to your examples, which don't seem to show what you say they show.
 

Cirrus

Active Member
I'm responding to your examples, which don't seem to show what you say they show.
As I said, try to contibute rather that sealion, you're not the ringmaster of this little circus so instead of asking for more and more like poor little Oliver give us your thoughts on the subject.
 

mudsticks

Squire
And the Sondheim production? Do you think they should have cancelled that?
(Sorry to drag us back to Fab's original article.)

I'm still not 100% certain why they pulled it , was it because Terry Gilliam recommended someone else's show??

Agree absolutely with all of that and support people challenging on behalf of those that struggle with a voice, what I don't agree with is leveling down e.g. removing someone else's voice.

Who's voice has actually been 'removed' though.??

Just muted a bit perhaps, yes, but not deleted ?

For all we know, they'll get larger audiences elsewhere.

Fwiw I think Maureen is panicking a bit over the demise of comedy, there's loads of good stuff out there.

Maybe she's just a bit concerned that her particular brand is not to everyones taste..

After all, in many ways comedy thrives in difficult times.

Although with our current crop of 'politicians' having taken the lampooning back in-house , I'd imagine many satirists do fear for their jobs..

As a humorous interlude, and as a brief burst of levity in our serious maunderings..

I offer you, the inimitable.
First dawg on the moon..

Raised a titter from me anyhows, and somewhat references what someone in the article said, about wait til the present generation has another generation, I do feel a tad like aunty penguin now and again .. 🐧😇


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/series/first-dog-on-the-moon
 
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farfromtheland

Regular AND Goofy
As I recall, those propaganga images were posted as examples of engineering public opinion rather than of cancelling as such. The question of the role of this engineering, providing an envronment where cancelling is a more correct response than debate is a good one

Dave Chapelle's experience with Netflix is less important to me than the knee jerk responses of some of his critics. He is an individual, yet already established enough to defend himself. Comedy is not and never can be a sincure.

The argument that people new to public speaking might be deterred by ingrained attitudes of prejudice is not straighforward. One one hand nastiness disguised as banter is vile. Conversely situations also arise where public opinion dictates a subject is closed for discussion - as in the trans-activist/'terf' polarity. Reasoned debate has been the casualty.
 

Cirrus

Active Member
Just muted a bit perhaps, yes, but not deleted ?
Muted, gagged, silenced.. . I don't really think it matters, they are either impacted directly, not booked by venues due to pressure, or self censor for fear of being dropped, not booked etc. So some people will find a voice but at the expense of others.

My view is that both should have a voice
 

the snail

Active Member
I think if you are in the entertainment business, and you adopt a controversial approach, dealing with contentious issues, then you will limit your employment options. That has always been the case, and there are probably more comedians selling their acts based on being edgy/controversial than ever. You would have to be pretty naive to start talking about trans issues, brexit, veganism etc. and be surprised when some people get upset, and some venues think twice about hiring you.
 

mudsticks

Squire
Muted, gagged, silenced.. . I don't really think it matters, they are either impacted directly, not booked by venues due to pressure, or self censor for fear of being dropped, not booked etc. So some people will find a voice but at the expense of others.

My view is that both should have a voice

We all self censor though don't we, depending on circs, unless we're sociopaths ??

Some have done that, far more than others, in the past.

Historically the marginalised have had to self censor enormously, even to be allowed to get away with existing, in the face of homophobia, transphobia, sexism, racism and so on..

I think to a certain extent what we might think of as the 'mainstream' are somewhat offended by these groups no longer feeling the need to apologise for existing, and instead having the cheek to be fully rounded vocal people, not just some tokenised stereotype.

Democratisation of voice has come about to a certain extent via SocMed .

Yes all should be 'allowed' to exist and have voice, in principal.

But there's still a lot of marginalised voices we don't ever get to hear though..
Still a lot of need to amplify the unheard, not worry so much about the supposed 'cancelling' of 'the old guard' they're not going anywhere.

Anyhow this is about 'comedy' right, a notoriously difficult thing to pin down..

And I am going somewhere..

:hello:
 

mudsticks

Squire
I think if you are in the entertainment business, and you adopt a controversial approach, dealing with contentious issues, then you will limit your employment options. That has always been the case, and there are probably more comedians selling their acts based on being edgy/controversial than ever. You would have to be pretty naive to start talking about trans issues, brexit, veganism etc. and be surprised when some people get upset, and some venues think twice about hiring you.

And equally well, in other places you may well get more bookings on the basis of being 'edgy'..

Pretty much sure it was ever thus..
 

Cirrus

Active Member
You would have to be pretty naive to start talking about trans issues, brexit, veganism etc. and be surprised when some people get upset, and some venues think twice about hiring you.
But should we have these sacred cows, subjects that people are scared of bringing up, be that in comedic or other setting.

What if making fun of, highlighting poor behaviour of the government becomes one of those sacred cows?
 

matticus

Guru
I used it as an example because the Jewish community are particularly vocal about the slightest slight or potential insult, which makes her opinion strange when openly suggesting that being insulting or offensive to others is acceptable.
I'm not for a second suggesting you're racist, but this statement is entirely predicated on Maureen holding the same views as her fellow Jews.

This really is as plain as day!
 
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