No Shamima Begum Thread?

[Deleted member 159]

No one has suggested there shouldn't be consequences. This is about the UK government accepting its responsibilities.

They have, responsible for the safety of the UK population as a whole.

Saying that, currently with islamic extremists threatening many many people from within the UK, they are shockingly bad

 

[Ian H]

They have, responsible for the safety of the UK population as a whole.

As a very rough analogy - locking your misbehaving or delinquent child out of the house & hoping your neighbours will deal with her is not taking responsibility.

Saying that, currently with islamic extremists threatening many many people from within the UK, they are shockingly bad

People with your views are a much bigger threat.

 

[multitool]

.People with your views are a much bigger threat.

...because they are insidious, and, through the likes of very well-funded people have entered the public debate.

Truss was parroting this sort of crap today at CPAC, Braverman has been at it too.

 

[spen666]

As @Ian H says, it's about decency for Begum herself. I'm merely an observer of the legal scene, as are you, and my sadness is neither here nor there.

I understand what the court has said and that its decision stands unless she can succeed on a further appeal.

Neither of us can see how the practicality and/or politics will play in N years time.

You are confusing your wish for how the matter plays out with the actual position.
There is no basis for saying she must be allowed into the UK.
She is not a British Citizen and has no legal right to be here.


You may want her to be allowed here - and that is your right. However, that wish is very different from saying

Sooner or later she's going to have to be allowed back

She as the law stands is not "going to have to be allowed back". There is no one that can compel the UK to allow her into the UK.

I'm still trying to find how she is going to have to be allowed back into the UK as you claim. What is the basis of this claim. She is not a citizen of this country. She is not our problem and the courts have unanimously ruled the Home Secretary was right to strip her of her citizenship

 

[spen666]

No one has suggested there shouldn't be consequences. This is about the UK government accepting its responsibilities.

Its really more about a terrorist supporter & apologists accepting responsibilities and the consequences of her actions

 

[AuroraSaab]

She doesn't have dual citizenship though.

I was under the impression she had automatic dual citizenship by way of having Bangladeshi parents? Same applies to those born of Pakistani parents I think.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I'm still trying to find how she is going to have to be allowed back into the UK as you claim. What is the basis of this claim.

AIUI it's that Bangladesh won't take her and that nobody is allowed to be made stateless so the British side of her dual citizenship should kick in and the UK should have her. The fact that she's not in the country means the government don't really have to do much other than keep her out.

 

[Deleted member 159]

Bangladesh don't want her back either, wonder why

 

[spen666]

AIUI it's that Bangladesh won't take her and that nobody is allowed to be made stateless so the British side of her dual citizenship should kick in and the UK should have her. The fact that she's not in the country means the government don't really have to do much other than keep her out.

That is irrelevant.

What matters is what the position was at the time of the Home Secretary making their decision.

This was argued before the court and is dealt with in the judgement.

She was not made stateless at the time the Home Secretary made their decision. She became stateless when the Bangladesh government subsequently said they would not give her citizenship.

She lost her British citizenship before Bangladesh stripped her of her citizenship of their country. As the Court of Appeal Said, it may be harsh, but the decision of the Home Secretary was legal

 

[Ian H]

Its really more about a terrorist supporter & apologists accepting responsibilities and the consequences of her actions

So the UK government is okay to wash its hands of her and assume no responsibility for someone who was* a UK citizen? It's not about her getting away with anything - she should be facing UK justice.

*should still be

 

[AuroraSaab]

That is irrelevant.

What matters is what the position was at the time of the Home Secretary making their decision.

This was argued before the court and is dealt with in the judgement.

She was not made stateless at the time the Home Secretary made their decision. She became stateless when the Bangladesh government subsequently said they would not give her citizenship.

She lost her British citizenship before Bangladesh stripped her of her citizenship of their country. As the Court of Appeal Said, it may be harsh, but the decision of the Home Secretary was legal

I agree. The decision is legal, whether it's morally right or wrong.

 

[winjim]

I was under the impression she had automatic dual citizenship by way of having Bangladeshi parents? Same applies to those born of Pakistani parents I think.

AIUI the government tried to argue that in order to be able to remove her citizenship without making her stateless. But she's never even visited there and Bangladesh have said she's not a citizen.

 

[AuroraSaab]

If Bangladesh grant citizenship to the children of Bangladeshis living abroad automatically, which seems to be the case, I don't see how they can say she doesn't have dual citizenship. It was really just a race as to who could offload her first.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

If Bangladesh grant citizenship to the children of Bangladeshis living abroad automatically, which seems to be the case, I don't see how they can say she doesn't have dual citizenship. It was really just a race as to who could offload her first.

Is it automatic citizenship or automatic entitlement to apply?

Many UK citizens have entitlement to apply for Irish citizenship, either through a parent or grandparent, but I don’t think it’s guaranteed. I didn’t get mine until I’d successfully been entered on the foreign births register.

The statement from the Bangladesh government suggests it isn’t an automatic citizenship.

 

[multitool]