No Shamima Begum Thread?

[spen666]

So the UK government is okay to wash its hands of her and assume no responsibility for someone who was* a UK citizen? ....

*should still be

Yes, the Court of Appeal have unanimously confirmed it is ok.


The Court of Appeal have also unanimously confirmed that she should not still be a citizen of the UK in that the decision of the Home Secretary was lawfully made

 

[qigong chimp]

Be sure to wipe yourself down after.

 

[Ian H]

Yes, the Court of Appeal have unanimously confirmed it is ok.


The Court of Appeal have also unanimously confirmed that she should not still be a citizen of the UK in that the decision of the Home Secretary was lawfully made

You keep repeating the legal argument that no one is disputing. I'm arguing against the morality of that law.

 

[icowden]

They have, responsible for the safety of the UK population as a whole.

And yet their decision has made the UK population less safe, not more safe.

Which is better - to allow a claimed former terrorist in to the country so that you know *exactly* where they are at all times and what they are doing, and to be able to assess whether they have, as they say, reformed or:-

To tell that person to bugger off and send them straight back to the terrorist cell that they joined in a foreign country where you have no presence and limited intel, and where you have now incentivised them to attack the country that has rejected them?

 

[spen666]

You keep repeating the legal argument that no one is disputing. I'm arguing against the morality of that law.

You asked if it was ok.

I answered that it was.



How about talking about the morality of supporting & being part of a terrorist organisation. Remember she as an adult as well as younger stated her support for the terrorist organisation.

 

[spen666]

And yet their decision has made the UK population less safe, not more safe.
.....

That maybe your opinion.

There is no factual objective evidence to support this.

 

[icowden]

There is no factual objective evidence to support this.

Nor any factual evidence to support the reverse.

So we have to go with which we thing is most likely.

If you ask me for help to leave a violent and coercive gang and I tell you that you are scum and to piss off, are you more or less likely to leave the gang and help them plot a revenge attack?

 

[C R]

This decicision creates a large number of dissafected people who despite being born here and having no real relation to their parents homeland, are now told that they can be made non British at a stroke of a pen. This makes causes more danger to Britain than Ms Begum ever could.

 

[Bromptonaut]

I'm still trying to find how she is going to have to be allowed back into the UK as you claim. What is the basis of this claim. She is not a citizen of this country. She is not our problem and the courts have unanimously ruled the Home Secretary was right to strip her of her citizenship

As already stated I've no significant difference with you as to what has been done, it's practical effect and that, so far, the Courts have upheld it

My point is that sooner or later the political wind will change. Begum, and others overseas in similar circumstances, will be seen as deserving help and support.

 

[spen666]

As already stated I've no significant difference with you as to what has been done, it's practical effect and that, so far, the Courts have upheld it

My point is that sooner or later the political wind will change. Begum, and others overseas in similar circumstances, will be seen as deserving help and support.

That is nothing other than a statement of your wishes and hopes that things may change.

It is very different from being a certainty that she will be allowed back in the future, which is the statement I have taken issue with.

Things may change, they also may not. It is not inevitable she will ever be allowed back

 

[Bromptonaut]

In my mind it's more than wishes and hopes.

For what it's worth, in terms of pinhead dancing, I agree there's no certainty.

However, on a balance of political probabilities - Syria as well as UK, I believe her return along with others in the same position - ie mothers of young children or bereaved parents, will come back. Politically I that's probably inevitable particularly if and when the ME conflict really gets going.

 

[Ian H]

You asked if it was ok.

I answered that it was.



How about talking about the morality of supporting & being part of a terrorist organisation. Remember she as an adult as well as younger stated her support for the terrorist organisation.

Keep up. We've established she did wrong - whilst a UK citizen. You haven't answered whether you believe the current law is moral.

 

[Milzy]

Sooner or later she's going to have to be allowed back, if necessary to face music and gaol time.

She cannot reasonably be left in Kurdish Syria over a incidents following her being groomed while still a minor.

Groomed my a€$#! She let her 3 kids die and was comfortable with human heads thrown in buckets around her. Only wearing western clothes for a publicity stunt to try and let back in. If it was a 15 year old boy I’d imagine they wouldn’t consider any grooming had gone on at all. She should have PTSD from what she’s seen but is just a cold hearted traitor to the U.K.

 

[icowden]

If it was a 15 year old boy I’d imagine they wouldn’t consider any grooming had gone on at all.

Utter nonsense. Have you *met* any 15 year olds. They don't just bugger off to a foreign country and join the military on a whim. Someone has to help them, to drip feed information to make them want to go, to offer them things that they can't have. I'm pretty sure they didn't say - "look come over here and you can be a wife and sex slave to a terrorist...".

Secondly, imagine you *are* a 15 year old girl who has gone and joined a terrorist group and thought "shoot - I think this might have been a mistake..." - you can't just go "sorry chaps - can you get me a ticket back to the UK - this whole marriage and making babies thing really wasn't what I expected...".

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

There are hundreds of known ISIS fighters who returned to the UK.
Isn’t it strange that this one high profile girl/woman has been singled out when others have quietly returned to the UK.
She’s our problem, bring her home and deal with her here.

That's actually false, the reason she was able to be refused is that she had a other nationality, you seem to imply she has been refused because she is a women, whilst the reason why she is refused is first the nature of her crimes and second her second nationality there are tons of Isis terrorist(any gender) around europe who are also refused because they had a second nationality and their crimes, the reasons why Begum's case gets so much attention is because she seeks it.(and one of the reporters who brought her first story later called her a manipulative liar you do the math in how much of a risk they makes someone who also said something like ''human heads in bins didn't phaze me, as it where all infidels...'')