Oh no!! Brexit not going quite as well as hoped

[Xipe Totec]

1. I no longer have to see MPs blaming the EU for all the issues in the Uk - positive
2. i am one of 14.9m that voted leave, so i am in the majority - positive
3. MPs now have to do their jobs and improve the economy in the UK to best suit us and not them europeans and cant blame the EU if it doesnt work - positive ( job accountability )
4. Brexit hasnt done me a disservice and probably hasnt to most remainers on here either, but they just want to moan because they lost the vote.
5. Farmers now need to do some work, rather than get free handouts for having empty fields.
6. We no longer have to pay huge sums to the EU to help bail out other countries, who cant afford to pay as much as we do…….
7. The bus said “ lets fund our nhs and not lets give it all to the nhs” but remainers dont see that in the way the other 14.9m do
8. It may not be a success right now, but its only been 2yrs since we officially left and during that time theres beena world wide pandemic…….remainers may not have noticed that, cause their eyes are still full of tears from losing the vote….
9. We can now if we want alter taxes outside of EU regulations, but dont see that happening at the moment.

just some of my views and i know that within seconds, some remainer will come along and degrade my post. But its my views, like it or f*cking leave it

So I guess now you've had your say & made all your valuable points, you'll be on your way, your work here being done, and all us boo-hoo losers having been firmly put in our place.

Mind that door with your arse, then.

 

[icowden]

1. I no longer have to see MPs blaming the EU for all the issues in the Uk - positive

Are you reading the news at all? All Conservative politicians do is blame the Eu. Brexit not working - it's the EUs fault. NI border not working? It's the EU's fault? Can't export your fish to Europe because we don't have a trading relationship - EU's fault.

2. i am one of 14.9m that voted leave, so i am in the majority - positive

You need to work on the maths. There are 47.6 million people in the UK registered to vote. 14.9m is not even close to being a majority.

3. MPs now have to do their jobs and improve the economy in the UK to best suit us and not them europeans and cant blame the EU if it doesnt work - positive ( job accountability )

Yep, I agree. Out of interest - how do you think that is going?

4. Brexit hasnt done me a disservice and probably hasnt to most remainers on here either, but they just want to moan because they lost the vote.

So, you don't go on holiday to Europe? You don't purchase food imported from Europe ? You don't buy flowers. You are happy with high electricity, petrol and diesel prices. You don't buy cycling goods or other goods from smaller suppliers in Europe? You don't have children. It's not about moaning, it's evaluation of what we had vs what we now have. We were promised a better economy, sunlit uplands etc. What we have is an economy in stagnation, 14 billion in lost trade, restricted opportunities for our children, massive queues in airports, the removal of data roaming for mobile phones, loss of access to the new EU GPS system, musicians being penalised, scientists warning that research projects are in jeopardy and big business moving out of our country to Europe.

For balance, let me sum up the benefits:-

1) Um...

5. Farmers now need to do some work, rather than get free handouts for having empty fields.

Again - read some news. Farmers are going bankrupt because of lack of subsidy. You want famers not to be subsidised? Great! How much are you prepared to pay for food - I guarantee you it will be a *lot* more expensive. Farmers get paid very little for what they farm.

6. We no longer have to pay huge sums to the EU to help bail out other countries, who cant afford to pay as much as we do…….

I'm not so sure that "I'm rich so you can f*ck off" is a good life motto. Are you a person who would prefer to hang out with Boris burning £50 notes in front of the homeless?

7. The bus said “ lets fund our nhs and not lets give it all to the nhs” but remainers dont see that in the way the other 14.9m do

That's true. We see it as a lie as funding hasn't changed for the better.

8. It may not be a success right now, but its only been 2yrs since we officially left and during that time theres beena world wide pandemic…….remainers may not have noticed that, cause their eyes are still full of tears from losing the vote….

No - we have noticed. But the pandemic finished a while ago and all business analysts and economists are now 100% that our trade has suffered massively and our economy also.

9. We can now if we want alter taxes outside of EU regulations, but dont see that happening at the moment.

We have no money. We have a massive debt. Trade that would have helped has been cut off. We would rather spend money on sending desperate people to Rwanda than finding out if they have skills that could benefit us. Our fruit and veg is rotting in the fields because no-one will pick it. We could always set our own taxes. Every EU country does. Or are you talking about trade tariff taxes? In which case - what do you think happens if we put up import taxes for goods from the EU? The EU will retaliate.

just some of my views and i know that within seconds, some remainer will come along and degrade my post. But its my views, like it or f*cking leave it

The way that discussion works, is that I look at the post and your rationale and then see if I think it holds water. If I have better evidence or a differing view I offer that back. As I have done.

 

[winjim]

Bus counterpoint.

 

[jowwy]

Are you reading the news at all? All Conservative politicians do is blame the Eu. Brexit not working - it's the EUs fault. NI border not working? It's the EU's fault? Can't export your fish to Europe because we don't have a trading relationship - EU's fault.
I said all mps, not just comservatives
You need to work on the maths. There are 47.6 million people in the UK registered to vote. 14.9m is not even close to being a majority.
47.6m didnt vote, stop counting the ones that couldnt be arsed, it doesnt work like that

Yep, I agree. Out of interest - how do you think that is going?
Total sh*t show, but we can use the ballot box if we arent happy, yes we could have done that before, but it seems we have lots of tory voters in this country and the tory party have strange rules on who they vote to be leader
So, you don't go on holiday to Europe? You don't purchase food imported from Europe ? You don't buy flowers. You are happy with high electricity, petrol and diesel prices. You don't buy cycling goods or other goods from smaller suppliers in Europe? You don't have children. It's not about moaning, it's evaluation of what we had vs what we now have. We were promised a better economy, sunlit uplands etc. What we have is an economy in stagnation, 14 billion in lost trade, restricted opportunities for our children, massive queues in airports, the removal of data roaming for mobile phones, loss of access to the new EU GPS system, musicians being penalised, scientists warning that research projects are in jeopardy and big business moving out of our country to Europe.
Electric and gas prices are not the fault of brexit…..i do holiday in europe, i have no issue queing a bit longer….no i dont have children, i have better things to waste my money on….as for the rest, lost of that was already happening when we was in the EU

For balance, let me sum up the benefits:-

1) Um...


Again - read some news. Farmers are going bankrupt because of lack of subsidy. You want famers not to be subsidised? Great! How much are you prepared to pay for food - I guarantee you it will be a *lot* more expensive. Farmers get paid very little for what they farm.
Agian never met a poor farmer, they all seem to drive round in range rovers, freelenders and very expensive tractors, shouting get off me land

I'm not so sure that "I'm rich so you can f*ck off" is a good life motto. Are you a person who would prefer to hang out with Boris burning £50 notes in front of the homeless?
We need to prop up the poor in our own country, as for boris….hes a cockwomble
That's true. We see it as a lie as funding hasn't changed for the better.
funding wont change, until you change the structure and stop using the nhs as a political pawn

No - we have noticed. But the pandemic finished a while ago and all business analysts and economists are now 100% that our trade has suffered massively and our economy also.
Pandemic is still ongoing, maybe wipe the tears from your eyes and you will notice that

We have no money. We have a massive debt. Trade that would have helped has been cut off. We would rather spend money on sending desperate people to Rwanda than finding out if they have skills that could benefit us. Our fruit and veg is rotting in the fields because no-one will pick it. We could always set our own taxes. Every EU country does. Or are you talking about trade tariff taxes? In which case - what do you think happens if we put up import taxes for goods from the EU? The EU will retaliate.
We have money, 5th richest country in the world. But government doesnt spend it on the right things…..they just use it to propr their rich tory donors

The way that discussion works, is that I look at the post and your rationale and then see if I think it holds water. If I have better evidence or a differing view I offer that back. As I have done.

Maybe your maths also doesnt tie up……you dont count the people that couldnt be bothered to get up off their arses to vote, doesnt work like that, otherwise the tories wouldnt have a majority either

as for the rest, i knew someone would counter my post witht their hollier than now attitude, but hey. We cant win them all can we.

and i made my points as a labour voter, not as a tory, as labour are just as complicit in all this as the tories are…….

 

[jowwy]

Bus counterpoint.

View attachment 1606

A good counter point, but not the one remoaners keep using….they still point at the bus

 

[winjim]

A good counter point, but not the one remoaners keep using….they still point at the bus

I'm trying to be polite here but you can't help it can you?

The bus and the picture I posted are part of the same campaign and make essentially the same point. It seems disingenuous to pick up on the specifics and try to make a point about literalism when so many of the claims made by leavers, generally but I think including yourself, are so vague and nebulous.

 

[jowwy]

I'm trying to be polite here but you can't help it can you?

The bus and the picture I posted are part of the same campaign and make essentially the same point. It seems disingenuous to pick up on the specifics and try to make a point about literalism when so many of the claims made by leavers, generally but I think including yourself, are so vague and nebulous.

The whole brexit vote was vague, no matter what side you fell on. Remain candidates couldnt get their points across in a way voters could get in board with and brexit candidates shouted louder….

im welsh, we as a country within the UK voted for brexit, im in the majority within wales and within the UK…i cant just be wrong. I like many others answered the question posed by the UK goverment, as i have every right to do. It doesnt make me thick or racist, but many believe we are, just because we came to a different conclusion on brexit to them……..its all over this thread and in the other place. They even bring brexit and its vote into other threads too, just in case nobody heard them in the first place.

 

[icowden]

I said all mps, not just comservatives

The Conservatives are in power. No-one else has the power to do anything.

Total sh*t show, but we can use the ballot box if we arent happy, yes we could have done that before, but it seems we have lots of tory voters in this country and the tory party have strange rules on who they vote to be leader

Not that strange. The leader is chosen by the MPs, that's all.

Electric and gas prices are not the fault of brexit…..

Actually they partly are. We have no gas storage in the UK. In the EU countries are working together to ensure their gas storage is filled and that storage can be shared. We don't have access to the EU internal energy market. So whilst the increases may not be the fault of Brexit they do remove a tool that the Government could have used to mitigate the prices.

.as for the rest, lost of that was already happening when we was in the EU

Er no. We had roaming data and could live and work in 27 different countries. Our musicians could travel and gig in 27 countries easily (I'm talking about the ones that don't earn millions every year).

Maybe your maths also doesnt tie up……you dont count the people that couldnt be bothered to get up off their arses to vote, doesnt work like that, otherwise the tories wouldnt have a majority either

Of course it works like that. Not voting is a valid choice, as is spoiling your ballot paper.

as for the rest, i knew someone would counter my post witht their hollier than now attitude, but hey. We cant win them all can we.

No - I'm pretty sure I countered with examples.

and i made my points as a labour voter, not as a tory, as labour are just as complicit in all this as the tories are…….

We agree on something!

 

[winjim]

The whole brexit vote was vague, no matter what side you fell on. Remain candidates couldnt get their points across in a way voters could get in board with and brexit candidates shouted louder….

im welsh, we as a country within the UK voted for brexit, im in the majority within wales and within the UK…i cant just be wrong. I like many others answered the question posed by the UK goverment, as i have every right to do. It doesnt make me thick or racist, but many believe we are, just because we came to a different conclusion on brexit to them……..its all over this thread and in the other place. They even bring brexit and its vote into other threads too, just in case nobody heard them in the first place.

If it helps I don't think all leave voters are thick or racist, neither do I believe that 'all racists voted for Brexit'. I do think that the entire Brexit argument, referendum and aftermath has been an undemocratic cock up of epic proportions from the very beginning and is at least partly the reason we find ourselves in the situation we do with the government we now have. It is a big deal and its influence is everywhere in our politics so I think it reasonable it to be mentioned elsewhere.

 

[jowwy]

The Conservatives are in power. No-one else has the power to do anything.

Labour had the chance when they were in government and i believe tory blair himself stated he was hell bent on getting us out of the EEC…..it didnt happen
Not that strange. The leader is chosen by the MPs, that's all.

When a PM is ousted, we should go back to the country for a general election and not just bring in a different PM without a mandate from the country to govern.
Actually they partly are. We have no gas storage in the UK. In the EU countries are working together to ensure their gas storage is filled and that storage can be shared. We don't have access to the EU internal energy market. So whilst the increases may not be the fault of Brexit they do remove a tool that the Government could have used to mitigate the prices.
No - our gas and electric is so high, cause the government allowed ofgem to go rogue with the price hike. I shouldnt be paying more for my electric and gas due to companies going bankrupt due to their sh*t business model in the energy sector…..but we are. Rises should have gone on unit cost and not the fixed standard charge, which meant people trying to lower their usage are still paying higher bills due to this issue

Er no. We had roaming data and could live and work in 27 different countries. Our musicians could travel and gig in 27 countries easily (I'm talking about the ones that don't earn millions every year).
you can still live and work in 27 other countries, its just not as easy as before and maybe thats a good thing…..maybe we will keep the talent in this country and use them more wisely. Musicians have already stated its now a lot easier after some of the red tape was lifted. A prominant musician said so on question time last week
Of course it works like that. Not voting is a valid choice, as is spoiling your ballot paper.
if you dont vote, you dont choose anyone, therfore cant moan about the result…….it Does not work like that and you know it.

No - I'm pretty sure I countered with examples.
A few examples, some that dont hold water, but i wont waste my time countering them all
We agree on something!

 

[jowwy]

If it helps I don't think all leave voters are thick or racist, neither do I believe that 'all racists voted for Brexit'. I do think that the entire Brexit argument, referendum and aftermath has been an undemocratic cock up of epic proportions from the very beginning and is at least partly the reason we find ourselves in the situation we do with the government we now have. It is a big deal and its influence is everywhere in our politics so I think it reasonable it to be mentioned elsewhere.

It shouldnt spread through every thread in this or the other place……..it just gets peoples hackles up.

 

[winjim]

It shouldnt spread through every thread in this or the other place……..it just gets peoples hackles up.

In the other place I agree, there's a reason this forum was shunted off. But it affects most if not all aspects of British politics. The government we have was elected on a three word slogan to 'Get Brexit Done' which has informed every decision they've made. The pandemic response, Ukraine war, the economy, everything. It's all directly affected by Brexit and it's all being managed by people who were elected on a Brexit vote. Brexit has affected, infected and infested every act of poltical decision making and discourse in this country. It is going to be discussed.

 

[BoldonLad]

In the other place I agree, there's a reason this forum was shunted off. But it affects most if not all aspects of British politics. The government we have was elected on a three word slogan to 'Get Brexit Done' which has informed every decision they've made. The pandemic response, Ukraine war, the economy, everything. It's all directly affected by Brexit and it's all being managed by people who were elected on a Brexit vote. Brexit has affected, infected and infested every act of poltical decision making and discourse in this country. It is going to be discussed.

I would be interested to know how you feel Brexit influenced the UK response to the invasion of Ukraine? (Excluding the rather obvious that Boris may not have been PM except for Brexit).

 

[jowwy]

I would be interested to know how you feel Brexit influenced the UK response to the invasion of Ukraine? (Excluding the rather obvious that Boris may not have been PM except for Brexit).

And for that also the pandemic??

 

[AndyRM]

The response to the pandemic by the English government has been absolutely wild. Like, completely all over the place.

To use a personal example, my partner has Covid, and yet under current guidelines has been told it's totally fine for them to go into work. In a massive department store, using public transport and in a huge shopping mall.

Perhaps nothing to do with Brexit, but a pretty clear example of the English government is completely and utterly incompetent.

As for Ukraine, it's basically been a point scoring exercise for the government, trying to prove that they can move quickly without the ties of the EU. Which I suppose in some ways they have, but the absolute cluster*ck of their "Homes for Refugees" thing has proved it's just meaningless posturing.