Oh no!! Brexit not going quite as well as hoped

[icowden]

Its only been 2yrs and we had a pandemic in that time……no way anyone can give an accurate picture of brexit, no matters what they say.

Of course they can. We weren't the only country affected by Covid. Here's a quick analysis from the Centre for European Reform:-

UK economy 'lagging far behind peers'​

In June, a study by the CER's Deputy Director John Springford examined the economic cost of the UK's departure from the EU so far, setting out to disentangle it from that of COVID-19.

"Now that many advanced economies have recovered and are close to — or above — their pre-pandemic level of output, we can compare Britain’s economic performance to its peers. The results are troubling," he wrote.

Springford compared the UK's performance since Brexit with those of countries with previously similar records.

His "sobering" conclusion is that in the final quarter of 2021, GDP (gross domestic product) was 5.2% smaller, investment 13.7% lower, and goods trade 13.6% lower than what they would have been had the UK remained in the EU.

"The UK had a particularly deep recession in 2020, but it ended COVID restrictions sooner than many of its peers, thanks in part to starting its vaccination campaign early in 2021. That should have made its recovery from COVID faster than other countries, not slower," he says.

"It should trouble Labour and the Conservatives that the economy is lagging so far behind its peers."

Noting that the British finance minister is "raising taxes to their highest share of GDP since the 1960s", Springford's view is that "these tax rises would not have been needed if the UK had stayed in the EU (or in the single market and customs union)".

"It is difficult to disentangle the impacts of Brexit and COVID on the UK economy with precision. But it is hard to avoid the conclusion that Brexit has severely curtailed GDP, investment and goods trade," he concludes.

 

[jowwy]

Of course they can. We weren't the only country affected by Covid. Here's a quick analysis from the Centre for European Reform:-

Wow the centre for European reform has said this…..i mean they wouldnt say it was the other way would they, because then every country would brexit and it wouldnt look good.

i mean it wouldnt be anything to do with the tories raising taxes to highest ever level and stunting growth would it…..no, its all solely because of brexit.

 

[icowden]

Wow the centre for European reform has said this…..i mean they wouldnt say it was the other way would they, because then every country would brexit and it wouldnt look good. i mean it wouldnt be anything to do with the tories raising taxes to highest ever level and stunting growth would it…..no, its all solely because of brexit.

Well, they are raising taxes because of Brexit...

The rationale and analysis is here. It seems pretty fair to me.

https://www.cer.eu/publications/archive/policy-brief/2022/cost-brexit-so-far

 

[jowwy]

Well, they are raising taxes because of Brexit...

The rationale and analysis is here. It seems pretty fair to me.

https://www.cer.eu/publications/archive/policy-brief/2022/cost-brexit-so-far

NI raise was due to covid, to pay for nhs and social care……nothing to do with brexit

 

[winjim]

You are too modest. Your (self stated) lack of expertise doesn’t normally make you so reticent.

I've repeatedly pointed out that I'm just some dickhead talking bollocks on the internet so maybe you don't read as much of my output as you think you do.

Nor some other NHS workers, it would appear

I'm sorry, do you not believe that the government at one point issued legislation requiring the use of masks in pretty much all indoor settings, or that it routinely publishes guidance on infectious diseases and preventative measures including PPE, for workers in healthcare environments?

 

[Mugshot]

im in the majority within wales and within the UK…i cant just be wrong

You think that being in a majority automatically means that you are right?
That's one hell of a position to hold!

 

[BoldonLad]

I've repeatedly pointed out that I'm just some dickhead talking bollocks on the internet so maybe you don't read as much of my output as you think you do.



I'm sorry, do you not believe that the government at one point issued legislation requiring the use of masks in pretty much all indoor settings, or that it routinely publishes guidance on infectious diseases and preventative measures including PPE, for workers in healthcare environments?

Aren't we all?, unless we have a number of experts on taxation, defence, agriculture, etc etc on this forum, (I know we have @mudsticks to fulfil the Agricultural expert role).

I am asking for an opinion.

Unusually, you seem surprisingly reluctant to give your opinion on this subject.

 

[BoldonLad]

I've repeatedly pointed out that I'm just some dickhead talking bollocks on the internet so maybe you don't read as much of my output as you think you do.



I'm sorry, do you not believe that the government at one point issued legislation requiring the use of masks in pretty much all indoor settings, or that it routinely publishes guidance on infectious diseases and preventative measures including PPE, for workers in healthcare environments?

I am sure the Government did indeed issue such legislation, If I recall, it was hailed as "too little too late" on this forum.

You were alluding to events concerning your possible Covid infection a matter of weeks ago, not, several months ago.

I would hope the Government does issue such guidance, no doubt based on advice from a panel of experts. Does your experience imply that your Employer is not following such guidance?

 

[jowwy]

You think that being in a majority automatically means that you are right?
That's one hell of a position to hold!

You think your right…so whats the difference??? Remoaners say brexiteers are wrong, brexiteers say remoaners are wrong, its par for the course

 

[Mugshot]

You think your right…so whats the difference??? Remoaners say brexiteers are wrong, brexiteers say remoaners are wrong, its par for the course

That's not what you said.

 

[winjim]

Aren't we all?, unless we have a number of experts on taxation, defence, agriculture, etc etc on this forum, (I know we have @mudsticks to fulfil the Agricultural expert role).

I am asking for an opinion.

Unusually, you seem surprisingly reluctant to give your opinion on this subject.

I am sure the Government did indeed issue such legislation, If I recall, it was hailed as "too little too late" on this forum.

You were alluding to events concerning your possible Covid infection a matter of weeks ago, not, several months ago.

I would hope the Government does issue such guidance, no doubt based on advice from a panel of experts. Does your experience imply that your Employer is not following such guidance?

What's your point?

 

[BoldonLad]

What's your point?

My point is, I am asking for your opinion, not an expert opinion.

We are all (or most of us) "dickheads talking bollocks", to use your terminology.

Your area of expertise, Biochemistry, does not appear to preclude you from having an opinion on numerous other subjects, why this one. No reason why you shouldn't have an opinion of course, which is, rather my point.

Which bit of my post didn't you understand?

 

[winjim]

My point is, I am asking for your opinion, not an expert opinion. We are all (or most of us) "dickheads talking bollocks", to use your terminology.

Which bit of my post didn't you understand?

I don't understand what point you're trying to make. And I don't understand why you want my opinion on something which a) I am not an expert in, b) I have already written a paragraph on explaining my opinion and c) is irrelevant to the wider point I'm making.

In case you're wondering, one of the issues I have with Brexit and with this government is that they spend far too much time and effort courting favour with dickheads on the internet and not enough time and effort considering what the wisest course of action is at any given point in time and proceeding whenceforth.

 

[icowden]

You think your right…so whats the difference??? Remoaners say brexiteers are wrong, brexiteers say remoaners are wrong, its par for the course

The difference is that "remoaners" can provide shed loads of well evidenced, well thought out arguments that Brexit is wrong and has damaged the UK. They can produce countless well regarded experts in multiple fields who can argue well thought out cases that Brexit is causing lasting damage.

Meanwhile all "brexiteers" have to offer is "it's too early to tell yet" and "blue passports, pounds and ounces, lions on pint glasses" (all of which could have been done without Brexit) whilst the less savvy Brexiteers ignore the dangerous legislation that is being passed to remove their rights and make the richest, sleeziest elements of society richer and sleezier.

 

[icowden]

Because i dont believe im wrong and would still vote leave if we had another referendum

As you would be entitled to do. Happily many people who did vote leave realise what a shootshow it is and would change their mind.
But - given that you have no intention of changing your mind, don't want to engage in rational interesting discourse by providing examples and counter arguments -

What's the point of your contribution to the thread?

If you are right - convince us. We are here to be converted to your cause.
I wait with baited breath for your manifesto.