Oh no!! Brexit not going quite as well as hoped

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D

Deleted member 49

Guest
@Adam4868 it was you that started this exchange when you complained that Starmer hadn’t made any mention of the disaster that is Brexit, so that was my focus here.
Started what ? I'll complain all I want thanks.
I’m not going to keep hammering away at this, but I do recall a distinct lack of clarity from Corbyn about the subject before, during and after the vote.
Your view....but we're not taking about Corbyns Brexit views are we ? I see a complete lack of anything from Starmer.
In both cases it is because it is toxic to a large number of previously reliable Labour voters.
So your solution is just keep quite and hope it goes away or the Tories self explode ?
 
D

Deleted member 49

Guest
He does appear to be good at one thing... ie catching Covid, I see he has tested positive, again
The only positive thing about him...
 
Started what ? I'll complain all I want thanks.

Your view....but we're not taking about Corbyns Brexit views are we ? I see a complete lack of anything from Starmer.

So your solution is just keep quite and hope it goes away or the Tories self explode ?
Complain away! I responded to your complaint that Starmer was quiet on the topic of Brexit. I’m not suggesting you stop - I have a degree of sympathy with your view - but I did suggest that there are plausible if not convincing reasons for his reticence.

I also asked what he could or should do to satisfy you but I can see that’s never going to happen whatever he says at this stage.
 

farfromtheland

Regular AND Goofy
Policies?
Build the cross Pennine rail link, and other links from Brum northwards - not necessarily for high speed, rather useful for freight in a greener world - this was one of the Tory plans that won the North over and was then ditched.
Talk to Europeans without being a outright self-publicist pillock. This would be much easier for anyone except Boris.
Subsidise a transition to greener energy and industry.
Complain away! I responded to your complaint that Starmer was quiet on the topic of Brexit. I’m not suggesting you stop - I have a degree of sympathy with your view - but I did suggest that there are plausible if not convincing reasons for his reticence.
I also asked what he could or should do to satisfy you but I can see that’s never going to happen whatever he says at this stage.
I know you didn't ask me, newfhouse, but even so, what do you reckon?
 
I know you didn't ask me, newfhouse, but even so, what do you reckon?
Nothing much to argue with there. I would prefer the word (and intent of) ‘invest’ rather than ‘subsidise’ but it’s a very minor quibble.

It should go without saying that the railway would remain in public ownership…
 
D

Deleted member 49

Guest
Can you see it happening though.He won't even commit to bringing water and energy into public ownership ! Where is he on public ownership of NHS, Housing, ?
Purely selfish probally by me but after the Blair years,then a bit of hope with Corbyn... not being the Tories isn't enough.
 

farfromtheland

Regular AND Goofy
Starmer should have no qualms in promising rail links for the North. If he don't it can only be some form of cowardice over the public ownership question. This would be new though, and no payoffs involved.

Now are are out of the EU he could start costing energy renationalisation. He would have the public on board with that if done well, so 'compensation' for the owners needn't be generous. So where's the problem? Fear of incompetence, vested interests, press antagonism or his own party?
 

stowie

Active Member
Oh I don't know....maybe start by telling it how it is ? It's been a fecking sh1tshow so far....we're not rejoining anytime soon so what's his plans ?
His catchy three word slogan "make Brexit work" somehow doesn't cut it if you don't explain how.
I'm not mad on the catchy slogans either 🙄

You might not be mad on catchy slogans but they seemed to serve the current incumbent masquerading as PM rather well. If Starmer stuck it on a bulldozer and drove it through some foam bricks who knows? Maybe it would be an election winner.

I expect - and hope - that Starmer keeps as far away from details around "make Brexit work" as humanly possible. Firstly because the Tories should own this shitshow and no-one else. Secondly because Brexit only works if policy is kept to three word slogans. Any detail and it falls apart.

Brexit is a bit like putting on a production of Wagner's Ring Cycle using cats for opera singers. There might be any number of techniques to try to get a cat to perform Die Walküre but the result will always be the same - chaotic and disappointing. If Starmer told the truth it would be that unless we do something pretty radical (eg. form an EFTA type partnership with the EU) anything else at this stage would just be to tinker around the edges or pretty up some bits and maybe shoehorn in some closer working with EU institutions because Starmer wouldn't have the ERG headbangers breathing down his neck to block everything. Besides, unless there is a major shift in UK policy, I doubt the EU are particularly invested in revisiting vast swathes of the agreement no matter how nice we are to them.

So telling it how it is might not be a good election strategy. If Labour keep a massive distance away from Brexit but come into the election cycle with coherent policies around the NHS, Social care, taxation, green energy and climate change, sustainable business growth (and probably a plan to combat the inflation / low wage growth period we seem to barreling towards) then I think that would be good enough for me.
 

farfromtheland

Regular AND Goofy
taxation, green energy and climate change, sustainable business growth (and probably a plan to combat the inflation / low wage growth period we seem to barreling towards)
Reconciling these is at least as complicated and possibly toxic as being straightforward about Brexit.

I'd love to see an Ipsos Mori poll about attitudes to slogan-based v detailed political manifestos.
 
D

Deleted member 49

Guest
You might not be mad on catchy slogans but they seemed to serve the current incumbent masquerading as PM rather well. If Starmer stuck it on a bulldozer and drove it through some foam bricks who knows? Maybe it would be an election winner.

I expect - and hope - that Starmer keeps as far away from details around "make Brexit work" as humanly possible. Firstly because the Tories should own this shitshow and no-one else. Secondly because Brexit only works if policy is kept to three word slogans. Any detail and it falls apart.

Brexit is a bit like putting on a production of Wagner's Ring Cycle using cats for opera singers. There might be any number of techniques to try to get a cat to perform Die Walküre but the result will always be the same - chaotic and disappointing. If Starmer told the truth it would be that unless we do something pretty radical (eg. form an EFTA type partnership with the EU) anything else at this stage would just be to tinker around the edges or pretty up some bits and maybe shoehorn in some closer working with EU institutions because Starmer wouldn't have the ERG headbangers breathing down his neck to block everything. Besides, unless there is a major shift in UK policy, I doubt the EU are particularly invested in revisiting vast swathes of the agreement no matter how nice we are to them.

So telling it how it is might not be a good election strategy. If Labour keep a massive distance away from Brexit but come into the election cycle with coherent policies around the NHS, Social care, taxation, green energy and climate change, sustainable business growth (and probably a plan to combat the inflation / low wage growth period we seem to barreling towards) then I think that would be good enough for me.
Do you honestly think if he plays along...keeps quiet until the election then tells us his plans that's the strategy?
Are his current gains the result of him winning people over or when Johnson gets the boot will they flock back?
No vision,no principles and this is all with the media on his side,wait till they turn on him.
Your saying power at any cost.. no thanks.:rolleyes:
 
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